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Noob Question - Coiling the haul line?

Original Post
Jacob Kantor · · Asheville, NC · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 30

Question about the big wall rope management sequence:
When the leader takes in and coils the haul line as he hauls, won't the wrong end be on the top?
Is there a way to avoid this? Do you just recoil it when you're done hauling?
Thanks!

NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40
Jacob Kantor wrote: Question about the big wall rope management sequence:
When the leader takes in an coils the haul line as he hauls, wont the wrong end be on the top?
Is there a way to avoid this? Do you just recoil it when you're done hauling?
Thanks1

Untie and swap ends.

Macks Whineturd · · Squaw · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

I find that its kinda a pain to untie the haul line at every belay.  
You could use a mini trax like Hudon does.  

But as long as its not crazy windy I just clip loops into a large biner and roll the biner when the leader starts up the next pitch.  

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Rope bags, baby, rope bags!

Usually I wait till I’m done hauling to bag the rope. If it’s really windy, I’ll bag as I haul and just deal with it feeding from the bottom of the bag when I’m belaying. It ain’t the end of the world.

You’re gonna save yourself a world of hurt if you bag your ropes rather than loop them, believe me. We NEVER have tangled ropes and rope clusters. 

Mydans · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 70

I usually just re stack it in a sling or a rope bucket if I have one.  Its worth taking the time to avoid a cluster since sometimes we have 3 ropes including the tag/lower out line.  you can do it after the leader leaves the belay because aid climbing takes forever.  Untying the haul line is annoying once its been weighted.

Andrew Krajnik · · Plainfield, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 1,739
Mark Hudon wrote: Rope bags, baby, rope bags!

Usually I wait till I’m done hauling to bag the rope. If it’s really windy, I’ll bag as I haul and just deal with it feeding from the bottom of the bag when I’m belaying. It ain’t the end of the world.

You’re gonna save yourself a world of hurt if you bag your ropes rather than loop them, believe me. We NEVER have tangled ropes and rope clusters. 

So are you stacking the loops as you haul, or just letting it dangle? (Assuming you don't have a huge ledge to let them flake onto.)

Then, when you're done hauling, you start at the haul-bag end of the line, and just flake into the rope bag? Makes a lot of sense.

I guess my next question is, in the windy scenario you mention, how do you get the rope bag to the top of the pitch? Presumably, as you lead the pitch, you're tagging up the haul line, which is feeding from a bag. When you get to the top of the pitch, your haul-line rope bag is at the previous anchor. Do you bring an extra rope bag, and lead up with an empty one?
Jacob Kantor · · Asheville, NC · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 30
Mark Hudon wrote: Rope bags, baby, rope bags!

Usually I wait till I’m done hauling to bag the rope. If it’s really windy, I’ll bag as I haul and just deal with it feeding from the bottom of the bag when I’m belaying. It ain’t the end of the world.

You’re gonna save yourself a world of hurt if you bag your ropes rather than loop them, believe me. We NEVER have tangled ropes and rope clusters. 
Which bag do you use/recommend?
Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

I use the Metolius Large Wall bags. They easily hold a 70m rope.
If it’s real windy, I’ll wrap up a bag and clip it to the back of my harness. I’ll bag the rope as I haul and just deal with it feeding from the bottom. Of course, if I don’t have a bag, I’ll just haul and bag the rope when I’m done. At that point, obviously, I’ll start bagging the bottom end and work to the top.
In actual fact, I’m sure I’ve spent 200 days on El Cap and there were less than 10 that were crazy windy.

I’m all of my last 18 walls I’ve use a Micro Trax to attach my bags to the haul line. If you really understand 2:1 you’ll see a lot of advantages. Don’t even ask about rope damage, that belongs right up there with Biner micro fractures and shock loading.

Gavin Towey · · Bend, OR · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0
Mark Hudon wrote: 
I’m all of my last 18 walls I’ve use a Micro Trax to attach my bags to the haul line. If you really understand 2:1 you’ll see a lot of advantages. Don’t even ask about rope damage, that belongs right up there with Biner micro fractures and shock loading.

I'm also a wall n00b and I'm trying to understand this.  Do you mean that the micro trax is down at the bottom where the bags are when you start to haul?   I'm having trouble visualizing this.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Here's one of mark's pictures showing the microtrax setup.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Oooh - He has a video of this too.   youtube.com/watch?v=dBoAJ2x…

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

There ya go! Never had any damage of any kind even including the fact that I’ve never used the water bottle knot protector trick.

Also, you can haul right up to the Micro and get the bags far higher than if you had tied a knot. 

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Mark - In youre picture - the one i referenced to - Why the 2 lockers between each haul bag and the swivel?  Is it so you can separately dock each bag and release them from the swivel?  If you were hauling one bag, would you remove one of those lockers?

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Yes. 
Two biners give you options.  
With the bag hanging from the end biner on its own docking cord, it would be very difficult to detach that bag from the swivel if for some reason you needed to move the bags separately. Adding a biner makes it easy.
Imagine you’ve gotten yourself into a pretty serious cluster with your ropes, haul bags and tether cords. Having an easy way to separate everything might make de-clusterizing easy peazy.
Also, we always go each with our own haul bags. The bags each have a docking cord and are docked to different bolts. The extra biners below the swivel allow the bags to hang a little further apart, making them easier to get into.

I’m a big fan of easy!

If I were hauling only one bag there would be no need for two biners.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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