Purcell Prusik for PAS

Hi Guys,

What do you think of a Purcell Prusik for your PAS? What do you use for your PAS?

Colin

It would work fine if you want to carry a dedicated personal anchor (ie sport climbing).

It's harder to adjust the length one handed than with one of the classic nylon or dyneema chains (Sterling, Metolius etc..).

If you wanted something dynamic and easy to adjust then a lanyard like the Petzl Connect. 

Clove hitch on the up and a sling on the down.  Keep it simple.

For sport, I use two slings girth hitched to my tie in points, locker on each. How overkill is that?

If you feel that you absolutely have to drop some coin on a dedicated PAS (POS) the only one worth using, and the safest one, is the Petzl Connect Adjust.  https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Lanyards/CONNECT-ADJUST
Climb Safe,
Mal

Carry one on occasion, I like it in situations where I might be standing on ledges and want a highly adjustable tether. But honestly the most useful case I've had for it is cutting it apart and leaving it as anchor tat

I am a big fan of them when I do use a dedicated PAS. They are super easy to adjust one-handed, can be used for rap anchors if you run out of other stuff, and if you size it right, stay out of the way of other gear. That being said, I have started to just use the rope as my personal anchor most of the time.

One other thing, I think they are a good knot exercise when you tie them yourself.

The real advantage to a PAS IMO is smoothly transitioning to rappel or lower. Otherwise you might as well just clove in with the rope.

For single pitch where you're just transitioning to a lower, the Purcell is fine, but I also don't think that the having an adjustable tether has often come in handy in this situation for me. A sling is perfectly adequate.

For multipitch, or areas where the ethic is to rappel, I wouldn't do a system which doesn't have a good plan for extending rappels while remaining attached to the anchor. The dual version of the Petzl connect-adjust does this brilliantly, but it's a bit heavy and bulky to have two strands (however, I do like having two attachments to the anchor anyway). The single version of the Petzl connect adjust can be used to extend rappels while attached to the anchor by putting a midline loop of some sort (directional figure 8 or alpine butterfly) in the middle for the extension, and using the end of the tether to attach to the anchor, but I find the rope they ship with is a bit short for this purpose. The kong slyde functions similarly to the mechanism on the connect adjust, and can be used to construct a custom tether with the appropriate length.

The Prusik can function like the mechanism of the connect adjust, or the slyde, but when it's weighted it tends to bind, and having more knots makes it more difficult to inspect. I think if you're going to take the time to build one of these, it's worth the extra $9 to buy the slyde and have something that functions more smoothly.

David Kerkeslager wrote:The single version of the Petzl connect adjust can be used to extend rappels while attached to the anchor by putting a midline loop of some sort (directional figure 8 or alpine butterfly) in the middle for the extension, and using the end of the tether to attach to the anchor, but I find the rope they ship with is a bit short for this purpose. The kong slyde functions similarly to the mechanism on the connect adjust, and can be used to construct a custom tether with the appropriate length.

For the extension, clove hitch your rap biner to the middle of the tether instead, uses less material. It is nice to clove hitch your rap biner before you clip in / untie from climbing rope, trying to clove hitch to the tether while already using it puts an annoying twist in the system and makes getting the preferred orientation of belay device for rap more tricky.

I have been using the Kong Slyde and it works well. But you do have to find the appropriate sized rope, it lacks the fancy stitching on each end of the tether so knots must be used to tie in and on the tail end which adds bulk. I got annoyed in having to tie in each time so I leave a figure 8 follow through permanently tied and girth hitch the tether to my belay loop. You could avoid those cons by getting the pretzl tether, but it's expensive and only includes the tether and device, no biner, but hey no fuss and can have it in two days.

The Metolius PAS chain works well too and you have a little more versatility in that your partner can clip to it at rap stations / you can use it as an anchor.

stolo wrote:

For the extension, clove hitch your rap biner to the middle of the tether instead, uses less material. It is nice to clove hitch your rap biner before you clip in / untie from climbing rope, trying to clove hitch to the tether while already using it puts an annoying twist in the system and makes getting the preferred orientation of belay device for rap more tricky.

I did this briefly, but I use the same round-stock biner to belay and rappel, and since I'm adding and removing the biner from the tether, I found it more convenient to have an inline loop (I used the directional figure 8) because then I don't have to be re-tying that knot every time, and I also don't have to worry about clove hitching first to avoid the twist you mentioned. It's a minor time-sink, but that stuff adds up.

I have been using the Kong Slyde and it works well. But you do have to find the appropriate sized rope, it lacks the fancy stitching on each end of the tether so knots must be used to tie in and on the tail end which adds bulk. I got annoyed in having to tie in each time so I leave a figure 8 follow through permanently tied and girth hitch the tether to my belay loop.

A figure 8 follow through AND a girth hitch? Why not just tie it in a figure 8 follow through? This is what I do and it works well as a semi-permanent addition on my harness.

For clarity, why do you need a PAS? 

David Kerkeslager wrote: A figure 8 follow through AND a girth hitch? Why not just tie it in a figure 8 follow through? This is what I do and it works well as a semi-permanent addition on my harness.

I do not like having it on my harness while leading (especially with double ropes or big rack) and only use it to for multiple raps. So it is easier for me to leave it in my small pack and get it out at the top of climb, girth hitch the pre tied loop to belay loop, setup rap. But yea, my brother just leaves his permanently tied through tie in points.

As usual, lots of blah, blah, blah.

You can't always use the rope as a personal so you need something. There's lots of ways to do it.

I have a purcell and a loop of of cord both girth hitched to the harness.  I can do lots of things with this setup:

-Move around at the anchor easily, always being clipped in with at least one cord. 

-Adjust my position at the anchor easily with the purcell, sometimes you need to lean back a touch more or better equalize.

-In a pinch I can use either as an extra runner.

-I can ascend a fixed rope with the purcell as my footloop, or use it for aid.

The weight of some cord is negligible. None of it is needed but you can do alot with it and separating your personal from rope has real advantages for rope and anchor management.

Tradiban wrote: As usual, lots of blah, blah, blah.

You can't always use the rope as a personal so you need something. There's lots of ways to do it.

I have a purcell and a loop of of cord both girth hitched to the harness.  I can do lots of things with this setup:

-Move around at the anchor easily, always being clipped in with at least one cord. 

-Adjust my position at the anchor easily with the purcell, sometimes you need to lean back a touch more or better equalize.

-In a pinch I can use either as an extra runner.

-I can ascend a fixed rope with the purcell as my footloop, or use it for aid.

The weight of some cord is negligible. None of it is needed but you can do alot with it and separating your personal from rope has real advantages for rope and anchor management.

Do you even whip bro?

;)

Floyd Eggers wrote: For clarity, why do you need a PAS? 

Why do you NEED any specific piece of climbing equipment?  A rope isn't actually NEEDED, nor are rock shoes, a harness, slings and or carabiners.  Even though I could do plenty of climbing without any of that stuff there are times when I find all of it to be helpful and generally make climbing safer/easier.  Well the same can be said for a PAS.  Do I use it cragging?  No.  Do I use it while doing long routes where I'll be untying from the rope often? Yes.  Do I bring it on every multi-pitch route I do? No.  There are a million different scenarios in climbing and deciding what equipment and what technique to use is up to each individual and their given experience and knowledge.  For me having a PAS is sometimes just safer, faster and easier than than using a sling.

I've been using a Petzl Connect Adjust for the last 2 years and love it.  I didn't love the fat rope that came with it though.  So I cut it off and replaced it with a piece of 7.7mm dynamic rope.  This is the same rope Petzl uses on the Evolv Adjust, which is the two arm'd aid climbing version.

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

Why do you NEED any specific piece of climbing equipment?  A rope isn't actually NEEDED, nor are rock shoes, a harness, slings and or carabiners.  Even though I could do plenty of climbing without any of that stuff there are times when I find all of it to be helpful and generally make climbing safer/easier.  Well the same can be said for a PAS.  Do I use it cragging?  No.  Do I use it while doing long routes where I'll be untying from the rope often? Yes.  Do I bring it on every multi-pitch route I do? No.  There are a million different scenarios in climbing and deciding what equipment and what technique to use is up to each individual and their given experience and knowledge.  For me having a PAS is sometimes just safer, faster and easier than than using a sling.

I've been using a Petzl Connect Adjust for the last 2 years and love it.  I didn't love the fat rope that came with it though.  So I cut it off and replaced it with a piece of 7.7mm dynamic rope.  This is the same rope Petzl uses on the Evolv Adjust, which is the two arm'd aid climbing version.

That's basically where I am going. The point is for the OP/anyone to state the reason they need it (supposed or experienced) and we state which, if any, will work best. Generic "do I need this" questions just lead to us talking about which we like, even though we may not have used many of them. 

First thing first. As long as you ascending a route you do not need a PAS. You have that beautiful rope you have already attached yourself to.

On rappel you most likely want a PAS. Use a dedicated PAS. Just keep it somewhere it does not go in the way (e.g., in your backpack) while ascending.

Unfortunately there are chances you will need purcell prusik. Basically if one needs (I mean it - needs) to use purcell prusik in a remote alpine environment there are chances(striked out) it is for sure they are totally fecked up (read: chances to survive are pretty low).

JIC, rock climbers really need to learn those self-rescue systems. At least to get the idea how they would die in a case of climbing accident in a remote environment if underestimating a route difficulty and/or overestimating theirs skills.

P.S. To learn implies to actually practice. Just pull your "unconscious" buddy 20' or so through a bulge, reposition 'em to your back, rappel two pitches to the ground. Now imagine the same routine in the dark, been hungry, and tired, and frozen, and dehydrated, and under huge stress, and using wet dirty ropes, and exposed to all kinds of elements including wind, and rain, and wet snow.

Jeez Pavel, keep it simple. The guy has never climbed outdoors and wants to start top-roping next year, pulling unconcious climbers over bulges in an Alpine disaster scenario isn´t quite on his agenda yet.

Jim Titt wrote: Jeez Pavel, keep it simple. The guy has never climbed outdoors and wants to start top-roping next year, pulling unconcious climbers over bulges in an Alpine disaster scenario isn´t quite on his agenda yet.

Lol I appreciate the feedback, even if it is a bit above my current area of "study" if you will. But I don't mind looking at more complicated things like this. I wont lie, I have laid on my front elevated in my living room table tied to a rope with a weight hanging over the back edge behind me to try to simulate a "simple" munter-mule & prusik load transfer to an "anchor" (my wire basket if you have seen my previous posts). 

I've also practised tying into all 3 positions for a 3-person rope team or 2 person rope team and rope management for these setups. I have also been working on a 3:1 haul system at home with some pulleys I picked up at the beginning of the year.

When I pay for my guided trips or my courses in BC I want to have a really good understanding of what's going on so I get the most out of the experience. 

Thanks guys!

I would guess there are few things to improve at which are way more important versus 3-to-1 z-system.

1. Clipping a draw. Seriously. Just hang two QDs facing theirs gates in opposite directions. Clip 'em both with left hand like 10 times each, repeat with your right hand. Repeat like 4 to 5 times. Every day. Do not try to clip fast. Try to clip smooth at like 80% of your "comfortable" speed. Slow is smooth smooth is fast. In a mere two or three months you will acquire a "clip on a go like a breathe" skill.

2. Clove hitching to a carabiner with one hand. The same routine as above. Both hands, both gate orientations.

3. Escaping a belay. Form a MMO. Untie it. Repeat like 10 times. Every day. In a mere two month or so you will form/untie MMO in seconds. The next step is to learn how to transfer a load from MMO-blocked belay device to an anchor. The next step is to learn how to transfer a load in between technical ledge and anything else.

4. Rope ascending using a bare minimum of equipment. Prussik. Something like 10' of rope's tail. Etc.

5. Trivial z-system (two HMS/oval binners and a cordalette).

Talking about PAS. For sport climbing you do not need it. Use your rope or two long QDs clipped to two bolts (the latter is formally not safe although good enough when is used properly with understanding of limitations and danger).