Ultralight winter bottoms system - what about hanging in camp?

Summary: stretchy pants and a light thermal layer work great during the day, but are cold snow camping at night.  insulating pants are typically 330g+. Is there a lighter system?

Details: My legs don't get cold when working.  At -6F / -21C in Lee Vining canyon wearing lightest longjohns, stretchy pants (patagonia simul alpine pants, there are many similar) and Gtex shell pants, I was never cold on the bottom.

Now, fast forward to night in ski camp, not far below freezing, everyone wants to be social and hang out, my legs are cold.  (actually, my legs get a bit cold up to 40F I think at night when not active.)  For standard insulated overpants, I would be looking at 330g+.  Youch. I'm too weak, fat, and old to carry those extras any more.  Also, it's my experience that anything light is compressible, and if you sit down or crouch in it, it doesn't insulate so well.

The only thing that helps in this case is that if it's only for in camp, no durability of any kind is required.

* Has anyone tried light overpants like patagucci R1 fleece pants or their (apparently discontinued) nano-puff pants?  How well does that work sitting on your pad on the snow doing nothing, or in absolutely utilitarian terms, leaning/kneeling over your stove?  Do the R1 pants have an advantage bcause they are less compressible? These are both ~ 330g.  

* How much does it help if you take all the trouble to undress and add a heavyweight thermal bottom, like 170 g? Is that warmer enough for in camp doing nothing,  crouching over stove or sitting on your pad on the snow?

Obviously this matter is super-urgent, because most black friday sales end today.

Thanks much,

BTP (shopping not climbing again, though I was out thu & Fri)

Thermacare heat wraps. Like hot hands, but bigger

No lighter/warmer system than down pants other than sticking your legs in your sleeping bag. Thermal bottoms and R1 pants won't be comparable. 

I think mountain hardware just released ghost whisperer pants. Or something from goosefeet gear or nunatak is probably the lightest option 

Gavin Hess wrote: I think mountain hardware just released ghost whisperer pants. Or something from goosefeet gear or nunatak is probably the lightest option 

Dear Gavin and all down fans: Indeed, at 230 g, and supposedly hydrophobic (treated down) these would be right on.  EXCEPT that all the reviews say the same thing: Ghost whisperer pants *way* too hard to get on/off, due to no ankle zippers or stretch cuffs, fatal flaw.  Also, down is compressible.  Something a bit less compressible might work better. 

ASIDE:
Another poster said something like "Nothing warmer per weight than down," which I think is true in terms of insulating properties.  From my experience, however, you must have a base layer that wicks and so forth.  So, once you have the optimal base layer, then everything else should be down for max efficiency in this case (1). This begs the question then, what IS the optimal base layer weight/thickness? The heaviest might be 100 g heavier than the lightest.

Thanks,

-BTP

(1) true for inactivity, but not true for "high-intensity activities" when you need ventilation). 

You want full length zips.

Don't worry about the compressible thing. No pants are going to keep your butt warm if you sit on snow, that's what a foam pad is for. Same reason a sleeping bag laid directly on the ground won't keep you warm (down, fleece or otherwise).

What base layer you wear in camp will play a negligible role if it's cold enough to put puffy pants on. 

If your after a super light layer for your legs your best bet is going to be to go to somewhere like Zpacks and get them to make you some custom down trousers with full length side zips.

I don't have experience with down pants but would be concerned about wetness moreso than with these: https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Research-Neoplume-Pants-X-Small/dp/B00S0CJ0RE/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1543199017&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=outdoor+research+foray+pant&psc=1

I wear mine over midweight wool leggings in the 0-10 degree range comfortablty. Full zips are crucial

Its 2018 and there is no shame in a man wearing a down skirt.  Consider it

Still have MH Compressor synthetic pants, don't know if their still available, but am such a fan.  Worth the pound to carry them about.  25% off at Backcountry.
https://www.backcountry.com/mountain-hardwear-compressor-pant-mens?s=a

IMO 330 g is a reasonable price to pay (carry) to keep your lower half warm.

thepirate1 wrote: 

Now, fast forward to night in ski camp, not far below freezing, everyone wants to be social and hang out, my legs are cold.  (actually, my legs get a bit cold up to 40F I think at night when not active.)  For standard insulated overpants, I would be looking at 330g+.  Youch. I'm too weak, fat, and old to carry those extras any more.  Also, it's my experience that anything light is compressible, and if you sit down or crouch in it, it doesn't insulate so well.

The only thing that helps in this case is that if it's only for in camp, no durability of any kind is required.

To solve this particular (bolded) problem, consider taking one of those thermal insulated mailing envelopes to create a lightwieght insulating sit-upon.
(This is just an example of such envelope)

Lots of companies ship things in these envelopes, and then they are thrown out... you can easily get one for free. It is lightwieght, rolls up into almost nothing, and lasts forever. Combine it with the sleeping bag that you presumably already carry, and problem solved?

Just do some squat thrusts every so often. Stay warm and fit. 

Just use your sleeping bag that you're carrying with you anyway. Either stick your legs in it, or just drape it over your legs while seated.
No need to spend more money or carry more stuff; win-win. Yer not gonna get lighter than that

You could have someone like nunatak make you a pair of climashield apex pants with a full zip. If they used 2.5oz apex and #3 zips, they could be quite light 

Summarizing:

* Drape the Sleeping Bag: Kudos to Aaron Nash. Before I tried to hang out and socialize, of course I just jumped into my bag, tried to cook from mostly inside it, and was warm all the time. So, it's a great idea to try and carry that around and drape it over me - great idea, definitely the lightest. Wouldn't work in wind and would be unfortunate when snowing - snow would get inside and get it wet. but still, a good idea.

* Get the lightest Down Pants: Someone made the point (andT. Farrell found a good pant) that down is always most insulation for weight.  BUT

* Ditch the Base Layer? NO, OPTIMIZE IT!  I cannot agree with T. Farrell that a base layer is unnecessary.  Humans respire, and I for one get REALLY clammy when not moving. So, one does need a base layer, in this case for "wicking".  I claim that since everyone competent I've ever met or even heard of wears such a layer, there is ample proof it works, is necessary, efficient, and successful.   Therefore, I claim that one has to optimize that layer first to optimize warmth vs. weight. Whenever I do move, I get hot, so I've never had more than REI lightweight bottoms.  I have no idea if a medium of heavyweight would be more efficient, and I have no idea if simply adding another lightweight or medium weight would work.

HAS ANYONE TRIED ADDING A SECOND LAYER OF THERMAL BOTTOMS? How good/not does this work? 

+1 for the double thermals. When i am out in the winter i usually wear a thin full length merino thermal. When i get to camp, i have a much heavier 3/4 thermal base layer that i just throw over top. This makes sitting directly on the snow tolerable if i have to, but as others have said, just use some sort of pad and its fine, i generally run warm though.
Also, use a kitchen tent/shelter. If you are setting up basecamp and not moving camp every night/you have enough people to justify the extra weight, this makes a huge difference in temps (stove heat helps a ton) and removes the wind/snow issues so you can get by wearing a lot less and still be comfy.