Health Insurance Plans for climbers

Well, not just climbers per say, but I had to make it relevant. Now that the individual mandate is gone and ACA premiums have risen for healthy young people that never go to the doctor (I was quoted at $270/month for a $7k deductible) does anyone know of any health insurance plans (long term or short term) that have decent rates but still cover accidents? I've heard that some plans don't cover accidents from mountain sports and the plan holder ends up footing the entire bill if it happens. Does anyone know of plans that cover folks that need catastrophic health care but don't have expensive premiums but won't shaft you when they find out your broke you tib/fib in an ice climbing fall?

americanalpineclub.org/insu…

Just looked a little harder after posting that, noticing that it said life insurance. It does appear that they have an accident insurance (not the rescue benefit). Maybe you can just add a accident specific plan in addition to your normal insurance. I remember reading a thread at one point of climber friendly insurance plans but the health system is so screwy I have no idea how anything works anymore...

It seems like GoFundMe.com is a really popular insurance plan these days.

earl mcalister wrote: Now that the individual mandate is gone . . . 

Better check what the new rules coming up for 2019 are in your U.S. _state_ of residence (or whichever states where you'll have taxable income in 2019?).

Some U.S. states have recently enacted their own "individual mandate" income-tax penalties for individuals who choose not to purchase Health insurance and do not have it through their employers (or something like that). But many states have not.

Call an insurance agent?

This doesn't exactly answer your question but from a recent experience of mine this might be useful:

I recently had an accident involving an air ambulance lift while in the Sierras (Note: I'm fortunate to have very good health insurance through my job):

1) This is the big one: Most insurance providers do not seem to have in-network air ambulance services.  Check with your insurance company to see if they do etc.  My bill was a little over $50,000.  The air ambulance was out of network.  I don't know why but insurance covered nearly the entire amount.  I suspect its related to the accident being viewed as life threatening but the contingencies as to where it gets covered or not is terrifying ($50 is a lot of money).
2) American Alpine Club offers two types of insurance.  READ THE DETAILS.  One of the services doesn't seem to cover much once you break it down.  The other only covers about $7,000 but under certain conditions.  Read the conditions and let your climbing partner know you are an AAC member and the processes to take if you are injured.
3) If interested in Air Ambulance insurance, most of these heli company offer an insurance plan of sorts.  From my understanding its ~$100/year and you get free heli rides IF the correct one gets called.  If another air ambulance company is called and you don't have their specific insurance you're gonna be facing a large bill.  To me this is important since most climbers are traveling around exploring new climbing areas.  The air ambulance service you have insurance through might not even be in that area.

Based on a lot of research and talking with actual insurance agents, most plans don’t care or even consider how you got hurt and they won’t ask about your risky activities when you are applying. This is especially true if you get on a group plan like most employers offer.

The real issues are life insurance and short/long term disability. My group life insurance will cover me no matter how I die. If I want to go out and get additional coverage on my own, I will need to explain that I climb and it will cost more than the average person but still very available and cause of death won’t matter (unless suicide in some window of opening the plan). Still haven’t figured out a good solution for short/long term disability. Guess make sure you have a decent emergency fund 

When I was in grad school, there was some fine print for the university's health insurance plan saying something like "dangerous activities like mountain climbing with a rope and/or guide, scuba diving, and sky diving" may not be covered.  I wound up buying shitty third-party, high-deductible insurance that I literally never used through grad school.  Since this was 2001-2005, it was only about $90/month.  This is the only occasion I have heard about in which health insurance (as opposed to life insurance) parsed out what activities would and would not be covered.

earl mcalister wrote: Well, not just climbers per say, but I had to make it relevant. Now that the individual mandate is gone and ACA premiums have risen for healthy young people that never go to the doctor (I was quoted at $270/month for a $7k deductible) does anyone know of any health insurance plans (long term or short term) that have decent rates but still cover accidents? I've heard that some plans don't cover accidents from mountain sports and the plan holder ends up footing the entire bill if it happens. Does anyone know of plans that cover folks that need catastrophic health care but don't have expensive premiums but won't shaft you when they find out your broke you tib/fib in an ice climbing fall?

My insurance covered my climbing accident no questions asked. BCBS of MN. Similarly shirt and king term disability was covered no problems. 

My biggest problem was (and still is) getting reimbursed for medical costs I had to pay out of pocket for care while in Canada. Next time I'm taking a few hit of morphine and driving for the US. 

Pnelson wrote:"dangerous activities like mountain climbing with a rope and/or guide"

So they support Free Soloing?

Pnelson wrote: When I was in grad school, there was some fine print for the university's health insurance plan saying something like "dangerous activities like mountain climbing with a rope and/or guide, scuba diving, and sky diving" may not be covered.  I wound up buying shitty third-party, high-deductible insurance that I literally never used through grad school.  Since this was 2001-2005, it was only about $90/month.  This is the only occasion I have heard about in which health insurance (as opposed to life insurance) parsed out what activities would and would not be covered.

So just solo all your mountains...

Cory F wrote: This doesn't exactly answer your question but from a recent experience of mine this might be useful:

I recently had an accident involving an air ambulance lift while in the Sierras (Note: I'm fortunate to have very good health insurance through my job):

1) This is the big one: Most insurance providers do not seem to have in-network air ambulance services.  Check with your insurance company to see if they do etc.  My bill was a little over $50,000.  The air ambulance was out of network.  I don't know why but insurance covered nearly the entire amount.  I suspect its related to the accident being viewed as life threatening but the contingencies as to where it gets covered or not is terrifying ($50k is a lot of money).

I might start a new thread on this topic because, as climbers, we are apt to get schlepped off the hill by an air ambulance:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/26/649537563/will-congress-bring-sky-high-air-ambulance-bills-down-to-earth

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-11/private-equity-backed-air-ambulances-leave-behind-massive-bills

Cliff notes:

Air ambulances are not regulated
There are too many air ambulance services
Because there are too many air ambulance services they are not used frequency
Because of the lack of usage their fixed costs per run is very high - well above what is considered to be usual and customary often by 2X
So for the above case 25K would probably be usual and customary.

Short of congressional action if one is injured, does have insurance through a network, and is conscious demand an air ambulance from your network. Otherwise, you options are limited other than to say I not will pay more than usual and customary as determined by my insurance.

Allen Sanderson wrote:

I might start a new thread on this topic because, as climbers, we are apt to get schlepped off the hill by an air ambulance:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/26/649537563/will-congress-bring-sky-high-air-ambulance-bills-down-to-earth

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-11/private-equity-backed-air-ambulances-leave-behind-massive-bills

Cliff notes:

Air ambulances are not regulated
There are too many air ambulance services
Because there are too many air ambulance services they are not used frequency
Because of the lack of usage their fixed costs per run is very high - well above what is considered to be usual and customary often by 2X
So for the above case 25K would probably be usual and customary.

Short of congressional action if one is injured, does have insurance through a network, and is conscious demand an air ambulance from your network. Otherwise, you options are limited other than to say I not will pay more than usual and customary as determined by my insurance.

i spoke with my insurance company about this exact thing, as being from MN, almost all of my potential for getting flown out of a disaster will be out of network. The out of network is waved if the injury is life threatening. Whether considered in network or out, they treat the flight like an ambulance ride, so look into what that cost is in and out of network and you will know what you pay out of pocket. Again, its best to have the conversations with YOUR insurance company.

earl mcalister wrote: Well, not just climbers per say, but I had to make it relevant. Now that the individual mandate is gone and ACA premiums have risen for healthy young people that never go to the doctor (I was quoted at $270/month for a $7k deductible) does anyone know of any health insurance plans (long term or short term) that have decent rates but still cover accidents? I've heard that some plans don't cover accidents from mountain sports and the plan holder ends up footing the entire bill if it happens. Does anyone know of plans that cover folks that need catastrophic health care but don't have expensive premiums but won't shaft you when they find out your broke you tib/fib in an ice climbing fall?

This question has been asked alot. I've never heard of anyone being denied coverage due to the activity they were participating in. I think you're good IF you can afford the premium in the first place.

My question is, would it make sense to just declare bankruptcy if you eat it without insurance? Anyone had to do this?

Rescue insurance is a different topic (I have it). I'm only interested in medical insurance. I had a high-deductible plan through BCBS at $180/month for 2 years but they dropped me due to eliminating that plan. I am an independent contractor and a part time/no benefits employee for a few different companies so my options are either Obamacare (expensive), or private insurance. What prices are people paying for their high-deductible plans? Any that they would recommend, particularly for large multi-state networks? There are just so many to wade through online and with so many plans not being federally regulated I'm afraid of buying bad insurance and not being covered in the event of an injury.

earl mcalister wrote: Rescue insurance is a different topic (I have it). I'm only interested in medical insurance. I had a high-deductible plan through BCBS at $180/month for 2 years but they dropped me due to eliminating that plan. I am an independent contractor and a part time/no benefits employee for a few different companies so my options are either Obamacare (expensive), or private insurance. What prices are people paying for their high-deductible plans? Any that they would recommend, particularly for large multi-state networks? There are just so many to wade through online and with so many plans not being federally regulated I'm afraid of buying bad insurance and not being covered in the event of an injury.

Earl, what's your state of "residence"? Honestly, I think around $300/month is the best you are going to see but if your income in low enough I think you can get a subsidy in CA.

It's nevada.

earl mcalister wrote: It's nevada.

Stay safe my friend.