Shoe Management

I'm wondering about everyone's process for managing shoes their lifecycle.  Here's my deal:  Been at this about 18 months.  Got my gym starter pack from REI, which basically consisted of "one pair of the cheapest thing they sell" - so I've got my BD Momentum, BD chalk bag, and at the time (at least in the store I was in) Scarpa Helixes.  Those served me well enough, but after about 9 months I had completely torn through the toes, so much so that REI took them back and gave me store credit.  I then went with the Scarpa Vapor Vs, as I knew I wanted something a bit stiffer and more aggressive, and they've generally fulfilled that role well, although they're developed a small hole on the toe rubber as well after 9 months and I'm starting to slip off stuff that used to not be an issue.  I'm a bigger guy (6'0'' 200lbs) and use them 2-3 times per week, 90% in the gym but have been getting outside more.  A few questions:

1. Should they be wearing out this quickly?  Maybe I'm just abusing them too much, but this seems excessive.  I store them in an open area in a mesh bag between uses, so they don't really stink and aren't left to rot.
2. What's your overall process for shoe management? How many pairs do you have?  What different purposes do you use them for (inside/outside,  sport/boulder)?
3. How do you care for them?
4. How do you buy them?  Local gyms will host demos occasionally, but I can't always make it on that day, and waiting for a demo for a specific company and hoping I find something that works doesn't seem like a viable strategy.
5. How do you know when it's time to retire vs resole?  

Thanks in advance for answers to any/all of these questions. 

When shoes get holes in the rubber quickly, it means you're dragging that part of your foot along the wall. On your warmups, focus hard on not dragging your foot, instead keep it just off the wall as you move it. If you do it right, proper footwork will become natural and you will use it in all your climbs. Your shoes will last longer and your technique will improve.

1) at 2-3 times per week, 9 months might be okay.  Try to get them resoled once you wear though the toe rubber, before you wear though the rand.
2) I have an "indoor" pair and an "outdoor pair". Indoor pair is aggressive and sized qutie snug, outside pair is a more comfortable sized all around shoe i can wear multipitching or whatever. I often use my "indoor" pair for outdoor sport climbing, if its something near my limit. I now have a third pair i can rotate in when i have to send off for resoling. Regardless, each pair of shoes has a different style, so i can choose based on the climb.
3) I let them air out, that about it.
4) Try them on at a local shop and buy them online, typically. Sometimes I just buy a pair and if they dont fit, send them back. (definitely something to be said to buy them locally so you can return them.)
5) I hear when the rand wears though, thats about it. I've never wore a pair out in 4 or so years so I couldn't say.

Edit: But yes, if you are wearing holes in any particular spots, other than right under you big toe, you might have a technique problem that is killing your shoes faster. Like the guy before me said, spend some time concentrating on foot technique, its useful for everything...

i'm 5'8' 163.4 this morning, +6", 6" soft, so here goes my experience.  

1) you're lucky.  quicker.
2) i go through about 3 pairs of shoes on a  12 month basis.  all shoes are rotated out for different styles, but i mostly rely on Hi-Angles, Anasazi velcros, and Moccs. Scarpas never quite fit my foot.
3) i walk around the crag in the dirt/sand in them, they get wet (DWS), i wipe the shoes off on my pants and throw in my bag until next use. no cleaning, never have.  sometimes i'll squeak them clean if i need a sticky edge.  
4) i generally buy them from the dude on here who offers cheap 5.10's or hit up one of a few friends who have similar shoe sizes and pro-deals.  
5) i've only resoled a pair of Boreal Stingers from '97 and they were phenomenal with stealth on them, but apparently the rule of thumb for resole is when they're down to the last 25% so you give the resoler something to work with.

Gee, REI took back your climbing shoes after 9 months, and gave you store credit? I guess I'm not cut out for working at REI. I would have just laughed at you, and would have probably lost my job when you complained to the manager.

But since I don't work at REI, HAHAHAHAHA!

1. Should they be wearing out this quickly?  Maybe I'm just abusing them too much, but this seems excessive.  I store them in an open area in a mesh bag between uses, so they don't really stink and aren't left to rot.

Yeah, n00bs typically wear out their shoes in about that amount of time, due to shitty footwork. Actually, depending on where you climb, and how much, it isn't even that unreasonable for more experienced climbers with good footwork to wear out their shoes in a year or so.

2. What's your overall process for shoe management? How many pairs do you have?  What different purposes do you use them for (inside/outside,  sport/boulder)?

I do not have separate shoes for inside/outside, and I mostly climb overhanging sport routes, so one pair of shoes does the trick. I do have more comfortable shoes that I could wear all day, but  Idon't wear them most of the time.

3. How do you care for them?

Take them out of the pack and air dry. I like Drypointe inserts, too, to keep shoes dry.

4. How do you buy them?  Local gyms will host demos occasionally, but I can't always make it on that day, and waiting for a demo for a specific company and hoping I find something that works doesn't seem like a viable strategy.

Every time there is a demo, I try on shoes I'm not familiar with, to see if there is something that I like better than my current favorite. Every time I go to a shop with a large selection of climbing gear,  i would look at shoes, and try them on. If something fits well, I would buy it, because I appreciate the fact that the store is there for me to try things on. But for my current favorites, I just order them online, since I know exactly the size I need.

5. How do you know when it's time to retire vs resole?  

When you have a hole in the toe. 

First off, the phone number for Rock and Resole is (303) 440-0414.

Secondly, your first pair of shoes should absolutely wear out that quickly, especially since beginners have terrible footwork. I would not, going forward, expect REI to take them back; that feels to me like an abuse of the return policy. Then again, they're a very large corporation, so I don't think anyone will go hungry if you take advantage of it. Whatever you're comfortable with. To answer your questions:

1. Yes, given your frequency of use and how long you've been climbing. The storage/rot thing has more to do with the life of the shoe itself and preventing delamination that it does with how long it takes to wear through a sole. Additionally, the type of rubber on the shoe has something to do with it. Sportiva, for example, uses a more durable rubber on the Mythos than on the Futura.

2. As you advance, you'll get a "quiver" of shoes. I have a different pair for sport/bouldering (Sportiva Geniuses) a pair for all-day trad (TC Pros) and a pair for hard trad and crack that's really my ak-47 do-it-all shoe (Sportiva Katana Lace). Plus I've still got my beginner pair of mad rocks that are in just terrible shape, but I'll use them in the gym now and again.

3. I sing to them the sweetest songs every night, buy them flowers, let them know how much they mean to me, and in return they let me send the gnar.

4. With money, at a store. Put another way, try them on in your store, see what size you are, and once you know your size either buy them or scour the internet for a bitchin' deal on them. Sizing is different between brands, but for the most part the sizing within a brand is consistent. You may buy a pair of shoes you don't end up liking. Either tough it out or sell them on MP. This happens.

5. If you like a pair, resole them until the cows come home. I hear most folks aim to get 3-4 resoles out of a pair of shoes, YMMV. By then the uppers will probably be obviously worn. If the toe cap on your shoes is blown out, then more than just a simply resole is required; the toe cap has to be replaced. You want to get as close as possible to blowing out the toe without doing it, and then resole.

Bill Shubert wrote: When shoes get holes in the rubber quickly, it means you're dragging that part of your foot along the wall. On your warmups, focus hard on not dragging your foot, instead keep it just off the wall as you move it. If you do it right, proper footwork will be natural and you will use it in all your climbs. Your shoes will last longer and your technique will improve.

Thanks - I can tell exactly what you'e talking about and I do this all the time.  Would help if I was stronger, but in the meantime I'll note this as something to work on.  When I'm a little pumped I'll often "stab" at footholds, or do a "bad smear, bad smear, bad smear, got it!" type movement as I inch up. 

I remember the days of innocence, feeling no guilt for returning climbing shoes after months of normal wear...

Send them in for a resole (many options, I've had great luck with Yosemite Bum) when you have worn through the rubber and there might be a small hole, but before you damage the inner stitching or materials. Some people stop when they wear through only the sole, before wearing into the rand(toe rubber). It's cheaper this way and has less effect on the shoe's fit, but it can be hard to tell when the rand is a little worn and actually needs replacing.

While your shoes are sent in for a resole, maybe pick up another pair so you have two to cycle through. Same shoes if you like them, or try something else. The problem begins here...the ideal # of climbing shoes being the number you own + 1...

Some shoes will last 3 or more resoles before the rest of the shoe falls apart (my best shoes are after the first resole, when the shoe is fully broken in and has brand new rubber) Eventually the fit will become a little sloppy or less stiff and they go to the B-team, for warmups and gym workouts.

With time your footwork will improve and shoes will last a little longer. Being heavy obviously wears rubber faster, it's a small price pay for being tall and having a reach advantage.

Briggs Lazalde wrote: I replace belay biners every 3 months due to wear yet most people I know get a year or more due to being weekend warriors...your shoes served u well...work hard, buy more...

bro, wash your rope....

Im not sure I read all of your questions, but to address a few, I use my ‘nice’ shoes (purchased here at 50% off retail after being ‘worn twice’ and they were pristine when I got them, when I am climbing at my limit. They have lasted nearly a year though I climb 4 days a week. If I am going to the gym or cruising routes below my limit, I wear my ‘other’ shoes, also purchased here at 66% off retail, they are wearing down at a faster rate, but not nearly as quickly as I used to burn through shoes. Never pay retail for climbing gear! Don’t buy 10 dollar cams though, those are all mine! 

I usually find that shoes are done by the 2nd or third resole.  Softer shoes (Moccs) you can get away with more because they only get better as they get softer, but as stiffer shoes get softer they start losing their performance.  Also, if I have to get rand repair, that’s usually it for me with that shoe.  But as far as my shoe rotation...I like to have at least one downturned/aggressive shoe and one flat edging shoe in my lineup at all times, and I also have a few (TC Pros, Blancos) that are outdoor only, so they last a long time.  I watch sales and never pay full price, so occasionally I’ll have a shoe that is “lining up” (under the bed) to replace a shoe I can tell I’m about to run into the ground.

Buy a lot of shoes. They're consumables and very important to your climbing.  That's my advice. At any time I have 2-3 pair of gym shoes. 2-3 pair of outdoor shoes. When they wear out resole. Figure out your sizing in various brands and watch the "for sale" section here for some bargains or watch online for bargains. Figure out how to get 40% off via things like Experticity or AAC. 

3x a week climber here and my shoes last 6 months.

I've never had shoes come back feeling different. But I mostly use Evolv shoes and get them resoled by Evolv (Yosemite Bum) so that might be why. 

Briggs Lazalde wrote: First company to offer foot scans and customized shoes is gonna kill it. Choose your firmness, material, rubber, lace or Velcro, the list goes on..if the shoe is designed around your foot though to start, mmmmm

One company that offers this service already exists: kN Climbing. SFT Climbing offered a similar service, but shut down in 2016.

Another data point, I'm 5'10 200lbs and I have a pair of miuras (xs edge rubber, same as the vapor v's) that could just about use a resold without the rand replacement after 14 months of being my main shoe. 6-7 days a week climbing, spread between indoor lead and bouldering, outdoor sport and trad depending on the season/what I want to climb.

I have a different shoes I break out for my hardest redpoints, and a beater pair for traversing laps, but 95% of my climbing was in the miuras for the past year and a bit. Climbing for 2 and a bit years, fairly ok footwork most days, boulder v5-6 redpoint 11d-12a outside.

I don't do much besides make sure I air then out at the end of the day and try to keep them out of a hot car and direct sunlight.

I retire when the uppers get too worn through. I resold when where the sole meets the rand by my big toe starts to get wavy, good sign that it'll blow the rand soon. Saves me some cash to resole earlier with just the sole and saves the fit of the shoe.

Thanks everyone.  So am I screwed from a resole here?  When I took the old pair back to REI, I didn't demand a refund, I asked if the wear was excessive and they admitted it was (much worse than what's pictured here).  May not have been, but that's on them.  I wasn't coming here looking for permission to buy 3 more pairs of shoes, but I appreciate you giving me cover. 

caughtinside wrote: That shoe is now garbage. 

Quoted for emphasis. That shoe is donezo. 

There is a line between the rubber and the rand on brand new shoes. Once the rubber wears down close to that line near the toe, it’s time for a resole. If the line disappears near the toe, it may need a toe cap. If you put a hole in the toe, it’s done for. 

Matthew Bertolatus wrote: ...although they're developed a small hole on the toe rubber as well after 9 months and I'm starting to slip off stuff that used to not be an issue.  

So am I screwed from a resole here?

You were screwed several weeks ago I'd say.

Briggs Lazalde wrote: First company to offer foot scans and customized shoes is gonna kill it. Choose your firmness, material, rubber, lace or Velcro, the list goes on..if the shoe is designed around your foot though to start, mmmmm

Climbers are cheap. You know that. Skiers will pay bank for custom boot fitting. Climbers want it free. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

Climbers are cheap. You know that. Skiers will pay bank for custom boot fitting. Climbers want it free. 

How else will I crush my 5.8 project without my custom tc pros with stealth rubber and a double rack of unscuffed totems