Fact: The Prana Zion Stretch pants aren't that great.

PatMas, you should check out the OR voodoo pant. The zippered thigh cargo pocket I totally a functional size, plus it is sewn internally thus no ripping off. I’ve had mine for about 5-6 years and the only abrasion in the fabric is a tiny thing on the right leg. I have used these for everything and they hold up to the abuse. The only thing I can say is that after all this time some of the stitching is coming out/disintegrating, but that is mostly the rear pockets, from chimneys and butt sliding down stuff. Easy enough fix and the fabric is still flawless. 

Cargo pocket

Abrasion in fabric

Missing pocket stitching 

While we are piling on the Prana hate, anyone else dislike how short the zipper on the fly is? (Insert dick measuring joke here). When wearing a harness I hate relieving myself through that tiny opening, so annoying.  The little plastic snaps to keep the pants rolled up seem unnecessary and annoying too.

For the Ferossi lovers, have your pants pilled much? I am on my third pair. I think my first pair, probably 8 years old, wore really well. However my two newer pairs pilled like crazy in less than a year. The Ferossi fabric probably still feels the best to me for climbing (lots of spandex, 14%, equals lots of stretch) but I think OR changes their materials a lot and not always for the better.  With the pilling and poor cuts on both the regular and crag pants version, I think I am ready to move on from Ferrossis.

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote: While we are piling on the Prana hate, anyone else dislike how short the zipper on the fly is? (Insert dick measuring joke here). When wearing a harness I hate relieving myself through that tiny opening, so annoying.  The little plastic snaps to keep the pants rolled up seem unnecessary and annoying too.

For the Ferossi lovers, have your pants pilled much? I am on my third pair. I think my first pair, probably 8 years old, wore really well. However my two newer pairs pilled like crazy in less than a year. The Ferossi fabric probably still feels the best to me for climbing (lots of spandex, 14%, equals lots of stretch) but I think OR changes their materials a lot and not always for the better.  With the pilling and poor cuts on both the regular and crag pants version, I think I am ready to move on from Ferrossis.

The zipper is my only real gripe with the Stretch Zions. When wearing a harness, the bottom of the opening is just too close to the harness tie-in points. It's definitely a hassle finagling past to answer nature's call.

As for the snaps, it's not a feature I use often, but when I do, it's nice to have the snaps to keep them rolled tidily. I don't mind them.

The only thing I really like about some climbing specific pants is the integrated belt. With the ferossi pants I have to wear a belt which I hate when wearing a harness.

The wranglers look good and the price is right, do they have an integrated belt?

Ashort wrote:
The wranglers look good and the price is right, do they have an integrated belt?

No only downside.... I use the stretchy arcade belt which is fine.

Has anyone else had the problem of the Stretch Zion fabric, well... stretching? Every pair of Brion/Zion pants I've ever owned has lost its elasticity and turned baggy after a year or so of use, sometimes much sooner than that (1 month in the case of a recent pair that I subsequently returned). It's frustrating, particularly as the Zions are baggy enough already and I buy the Brions because they fit so well out of the box. 

I have only had one pair of the Ferossi, so limited sample size, but they withstood a solid week of climbing in Lumpy, CCC and Eldo with no problems. I can't tell they've even been worn. Must be my impeccable technique   

Seriously, they are the best light pants I've ever owned. I put the Zion in a medium weight category, and I have two pair (weight loss).

Lee Extreme Motion pants have been killer. Wife found them at some random Target-like store and picked up a pair for me 2 years ago for xmas for under $30. Great and wear to work, gym, outdoor climbing, everywhere. Strange how much they stretch but feel and look lke normal jeans. Prob same materail that Prana and others use but so much cheaper and fit great.

Have 3-4 pair of Zions and are great travel pants - passport fits perfectly in side pocket, stain resistant, ok walk around and ok climb. Not durable, stick to my skin when sweaty, but freezing when temp drops at all. I'm always cold in them. Waist is low and rlides down below my harness so my harness is against my skin. Hate that feeling.

Climbing-specific pants (and tons of other things) are a play for our money and we can get the same stuff in a Carhart, stretch jean from a 'normal' retailer, etc for WAY less $..

Joe Prescott wrote: Lee Extreme Motion pants have been killer. Wife found them at some random Target-like store and picked up a pair for me 2 years ago for xmas for under $30. Great and wear to work, gym, outdoor climbing, everywhere. Strange how much they stretch but feel and look lke normal jeans. Prob same materail that Prana and others use but so much cheaper and fit great.

Have 3-4 pair of Zions and are great travel pants - passport fits perfectly in side pocket, stain resistant, ok walk around and ok climb. Not durable, stick to my skin when sweaty, but freezing when temp drops at all. I'm always cold in them. Waist is low and rlides down below my harness so my harness is against my skin. Hate that feeling.

Climbing-specific pants (and tons of other things) are a play for our money and we can get the same stuff in a Carhart, stretch jean from a 'normal' retailer, etc for WAY less $..

Its not a "play" for money. Its a distribution thing.

The same pair of pants costs about $12-15-20 depending on features to make for both Prana and Wrangler.

But Prana then has to sell it to Mom and Pop brick and mortar outdoor store for $25-40 and they both need a markup to survive in their short selling seasons. To you that is $70-80 for a retail outlet in some cute mountain town.

What you should complain about is The Gap charging you $45-65 for the same pants. Be glad there isn't a Gap or Wallmart in Telluride (yet).

Prana and Mom and Pop are starving in comparison not having the same efficiencies but its the products they sell that got the fabric accepted by the public in the first place.

Yeah, I worked at a small mom and pop in GJ for several years. Very little these days is distribution problem as most companies are ultimately owned by the same company that is delivering to Wally World down the street. We actually stopped selling The North Face gear fo a long time in GJ because we found the same stuff at Sam's Club down the street (for lower prices). I love true mountaineering shops and support them when possible (although my wife did work at REI for a while running their community outreach program in ABQ). Gear, rock shoes, service, etc is worth a premium. Prana jeans vs Wranglers is a business decision to get $ out of our pockets without providing anything that we really need. Look at the marketing. The product descriptions. Then do a blind pants test on your proj and tell me that the $ is worth it.

I agree with you to a limited extent, but the fact is that they are trying hard to sell you something for a premium that you don't need, regardless of whether there is a distribution problem. The mom and pop stores are in it for you, but not necessarily the companies. They really don't care about you. If they did, they would agree that you should keep your extra $50 you earned and buy the Wranglers. All of these companies get big. I met the original sewers for Marmot (3 Spanish women in GJ). Now they are a global marketing force. Their gear is great, and I'll spend the money for things that I need at a premium. Not climbing pants.

I'd rather save $ on pants and give mom and pop the extra money for something special/unique they can provide. Like sitting down with them and trying on every pair of climbing shoes to buy that perfect pair (and not writing down the size and ordering it online). Or trying on a loaded pack. Or buying a guidebook and talking with the locals, etc.
joe

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote: While we are piling on the Prana hate, anyone else dislike how short the zipper on the fly is? 

Back in the day, they used to have velcro flies, which would wear out and become prone to opening at unexpected times.

The zipper is an improvement.

mbk wrote:

Back in the day, they used to have velcro flies, which would wear out and become prone to opening at unexpected times.

The zipper is an improvement.

I have a pair with the Velcro fly, still holds great; easy open easy close for one handed wizz. 

caughtinside wrote:

They bring in $50 million a year.  Or are we feeling sorry for the millionaires for getting picked on by the billionaires?

I have some prana stuff and like it but some of their stuff is just weird.  Like their organic cotton thing? That's great and all, but the garment is still half plastic.  Does not compute. 

Prana didn't start that way and if you go to Outdoor Retailer you will see the dozens of small companies struggling.

I too have had better experience with Prana: I have one pair of ZION PANT.. I can't say how old they are because I've had them so long, climbed in them for several years. The only thing I've had to repair is the front button. Sewed a new one on and they're a-0kay! That said, I don't like any of the new line of Zions, they just don't feel right anymore.

I love my dead bird PSIPHON SL PANT. They're my favorite for cool to moderate temps. But I got them on clearance for $60, I'd never pay full price for them.

My best alpine pant is the KHUL KLASH. Holy smokes they're amazing, early or late season alpine in the Sierra these things are a blessing. Most comfortable and self-regulating pant I've every owned. Soft shell-ish.

At Josh the only thing that gets wrecked are my sun shirts... pants never get thrashed; maybe I'm just not climbing hard enough. 

Point is, no need to hate on Prana because they were successful when so many small companies fail. Buy the stuff or don't.

If anyone is interested.....
Prana Zion Stretch Pants go on sale starting next Friday (11/9) at REI for $62.

Arborwear Flex pants, like Carhartts but built for Arborists. Literally work pants designed to be climbed in. I've blown out a pair of pants pretty much consistently every 4 months since I was in highschool and these are the first pair I've ever owned that stand the test of time (admittedly I've only been wearing them 6 months, but so far they're bomber). Only downside is they're cotton which is a no-no if you're planning on getting them wet, but who really wants to climb in the rain?

Carhartts. Nothing better.

The most durable are cordura nylon or similar. PVC would be really hot and sweaty. Are any pants made from Cordura?

Santa Claus wrote: The most durable are cordura nylon or similar. PVC would be really hot and sweaty. Are any pants made from Cordura?

I think there are several.  I have had 2 pair of these https://www.sportiva.com/solution-pant.html each of which lasted  2-3 years of really hard use.  Unfortunately the colors currently  available are so hideous I am looking for something else.   These are a bit warm as the cloth is reasonably thick; like jeans.  

I recently bought a pair of eddie bauer 1st ascent guide pro pants which really fit good, has nice stretch, felt nice but unfortunately got holes the first 3 times I took them climbing.  They are definitely not durable enough for hard use.  Also the stitch is a bit poor at about 4 stitches/inch for the thigh pockets.