Double Belay Loop

I did some googling and found limited information. What are some specific uses for a second belay loop? I'm ordering a new MM harness and am trying to figure out if it's worth adding in case I have the need or desire for it in the future.

Here's what I've gathered so far:

Not really useful for trad or sport multi.

Aid useful for splitting daisies, fifi etc. That being said I've always girth hitched both daisies into tie in points with the rope. Belay loop for the fifi. When belaying I'll quickly remove the fifi just to eliminate any belay device interference. When I rap at the end of the day I remove the daisies and fifi, rap normally extended off a sling girth hitched into tie in points. So far I've always felt like the single belay loop is plenty of belay loop. All considering I have very limited aid experience.

Thanks,
Dave

the key to a good harness is 4 belay loops, 2 haul loops and  6 gear loops. Everything has to be 60kn rated too.

(to answer your question-- i've never found a second belay loop useful, even for aiding. It might be useful for aid rope-soloing-- others can answer that question better than I)

David Ebel wrote: I did some googling and found limited information. What are some specific uses for a second belay loop? I'm ordering a new MM harness and am trying to figure out if it's worth adding in case I have the need or desire for it in the future.

Here's what I've gathered so far:

Not really useful for trad or sport multi.

Aid useful for splitting daisies, fifi etc. That being said I've always girth hitched both daisies into tie in points with the rope. Belay loop for the fifi. When belaying I'll quickly remove the fifi just to eliminate any belay device interference. When I rap at the end of the day I remove the daisies and fifi, rap normally extended off a sling girth hitched into tie in points. So far I've always felt like the single belay loop is plenty of belay loop. All considering I have very limited aid experience.

Thanks,
Dave

I get warm fuzzies when I clip both for rapping.

Sometimes I feel like clipping the gray one, and sometimes it's just gotta be the gold one...

Redundancy 

Redundancy

Triple redundancy.

Aid Climbing mostly and redundancy. I like that the Big Gun Harness has a belay loop that nests inside the other. Keeps the tie in point clean when not aiding.

I find it useful, but not absolutely necessary for rope soloing. Even TR solo becomes easier to manage when I'm switching to descending. Normal aid isn't really improved for me; not much goes on my belay loops.

I personally don't consider belay loop redundancy a concern, so I think it's a nice (but not necessary) to have.

Two words: Todd Skinner

Tradiban wrote: Two words: Todd Skinner

And that a lot of people really don’t understand Todd’s accident.

Mark Hudon wrote:

And that a lot of people really don’t understand Todd’s accident.

Well that was easy. Yes, please do enighten us Mark.

He had had daisies attached to his belay loop for months and months and months. They were constantly rubbing on the harness loop and leg loop section of the harness, wearing the belay loop constantly in the same spot.  We’re talking hideously worn, not just a little worn, and not just pretty worn, but freaking crazy worn.
Search the Black Diamond site for one of their tests on belay loops.

Attaching a daisy to your belay loop won’t cause it to fail. Leaving it there for months and months and months probably will.

Mark Hudon wrote: He had had daisies attached to his belay loop for months and months and months. They were constantly rubbing on the harness loop and leg loop section of the harness, wearing the belay loop constantly in the same spot.  We’re talking hideously worn, not just a little worn, and not just pretty worn, but freaking crazy worn.
Search the Black Diamond site for one of their tests on belay loops.

Attaching a daisy to your belay loop won’t cause it to fail. Leaving it there for months and months and months probably will.

But what if there's two belay loops?!?

If he had had a daisy on each one, constantly like he did, they would simply have taken twice as long to wear out. If he had had his daisies on one loop and had rappeled on the other loop, he would still be alive today

i added a second, longer/bigger belay loop to the harness that i use for toprope soloing.  it's nice because it keeps the 2 microtraxions separated a bit.  i don't like them banging into each other.  all of my other harnesses just have a single belay loop.

Mark Hudon wrote: If he had had a daisy on each one, constantly like he did, they would simply have taken twice as long to wear out. If he had had his daisies on one loop and had rappeled on the other loop, he would still be alive today

If he had a daisy on each one wouldn't they wear out at the same rate?

I don't have 2 belay loops but my tether is tied with half rope tied into my hard points with a fig 8 and that tie in loops sometimes gets used. Only occasionally while out climbing but it gets used very frequently when I'm route setting at the campus climbing wall.

Redundancy is not a legit reason to get 2 belay loops because all belay loops are already redundant as they are made from 2 or often even 3 strands of webbing sewn together. If one cuts through, you still have 1 or 2 backing you up.

If you're doing it custom, you may see if they can do 2 belay loops that easily nest together and/or 2 slightly different lengths as that can be useful at times. 

eli poss wrote: I don't have 2 belay loops but my tether is tied with half rope tied into my hard points with a fig 8 and that tie in loops sometimes gets used.

Ring loading a fig 8? YGD!

Mark Berenblum wrote:

Ring loading a fig 8? YGD!

The regular figure 8 performs relatively well with ringloading and good enough for the forces that it would ever see. However, I have a backup knot just in case anyways. FWIW it's never even come close to capsizing and the tail hasn't slipped even a centimeter in the 2 years I've used it so far. 

eli poss wrote:

Redundancy is not a legit reason to get 2 belay loops because all belay loops are already redundant as they are made from 2 or often even 3 strands of webbing sewn together. If one cuts through, you still have 1 or 2 backing you up.

If you're doing it custom, you may see if they can do 2 belay loops that easily nest together and/or 2 slightly different lengths as that can be useful at times. 

This is not your usual insanity, like one inside the other? That sounds helpful and redundant ;)