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Layering! layering? layering...... How do you layer for winter adventures?

Original Post
Jordon · · Rochester, MN · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 233

How do you layer your clothing for winter? What do you use and what are you using it for? Ice climbing, mountaineering, winter rock? Where are you using it too?

I’m looking at the absolute zero parka by Mountain Hardware. As sexy of a jacket as it is, I am really wondering if it’s worth it unless your climbing in Nepal or headed to one of the poles.

F r i t z · · (Currently on hiatus, new b… · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 1,155

As I teach my Latin students: semper ubi sic ubi -- "always where under where."

F r i t z · · (Currently on hiatus, new b… · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 1,155
Fritz Nuffer wrote: As I teach my Latin students: semper ubi sic ubi -- "always where under where."

.... with apologies for the microagression, Latin being an obvious tool of the patriarchy to suppress dissent and establish heteronormative cisgender status quo (apologies for the microagression within a microagression).

So to respond to your question, here's my setup for ice or winter bike commuting in -10 to -30F:


Merino base
Fleece jacket
Hooded down jacket for the belays
Poly helmet liner cap or balaclava
Goggles
mitts, not gloves
VBL socks (look it up on backpacking light)
Plastic bag stuffed down the pants to windproof sensitive areas
Diet rich in Cayenne pepper
Toprope Solo for ice climbing, no standing around and belaying cold (if ye need help with that, don't use the search button, just post a new topic titled "Best Device for Toprope Solo")

Eric Danner · · The People's Republic of Bo… · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 0

For cold belays in the Utah/Colorado I use a Merino base layer, R1 Fleece or sometimes a good flannel and the Montbell Frost Line Parka (Best jacket for the dollar price IMHO)

Mike Slavens · · Houston, TX · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 35

There are plenty of other posts for preferred clothing for base/mid/top layer so I have nothing to add there.

Personally I think layering is overrated/over hyped in Mountaineering and Ice Climbing.  Layering seems like more of a technique to fine tune insulation for the day, but not something you use to actively manage body heat on a given day.

I just find it hard to take off and put on layers.  Between the harness, having to take off boots w/ crampons, and the steepness of a route I struggle to find a spot to do it without a lot of risk or hassle.  Also, once a piece has moisture its hard to get it to dry out before it freezes, and particularly ice climbing I get sweaty on lead.  Finally I feel like I'm constantly chasing a comfortable body temp.  Turn a corner and get blasted by wind, have a short hard section that gets me working, turn another corner and get out of the wind, setup a belay in the shade to stay out of fall line and freeze in that ice box, sun out or behind clouds, snowing or not, etc. etc.

I tend to use how much and how many of my full front zips are down, and the hat under my helmet to do most of my body heat regulation.  I also use it as a means of managing exertion, i.e. if I'm getting that hot I probably need to back off on my pace a bit.  But in the end, I'm either hot or cold, never comfortable.

So in summary, I layer only with things that have full front zips and bring at least a few hats to always have a dry one.

B Jolley · · Utah · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 172

When it comes to layering, don't mix fabrics, base and mid layers should be the same material otherwise they can restrict breath-ability, the last thing you want is to trap in moisture. My layering brands are Ice Breakers and Smart Wool, I find marino wool to be warmer and dryer than any synthetic.

Matt Himmelstein · · Orange, CA · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 194

I live in So Cal.  Layering for the cold means for me means being comfortable in the 60s.  I wear a non-cotton T shirt, a non-cotton long sleeve pull over (maybe one designed for heat retention), and sometimes a light fleece vest.  When not climbing, I might have a jacket on too.

Anything colder I leave to the polar bears and the Canadian Transplants who walk among us.

Melanie Shea · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 10

Super breathable waffled fleece suit with a hood then softshell pants with a thin fleece lining and then a super then softshell jacket with a hood and wrist closures.

 For real insulation it depends what I'm doing, If I expect to just be moving or moderate weather then a soft-shelled  breathable synthetic hoody that I can still move in without overheating for when the temperature drops or gets it windy.  A more windproof one if it's going to be particularly stormy.  Or I take a heavier weight belay jacket if I expect to be standing still for any real length of time.

Nick Baker · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 91

I have an absolute zero and I love it, but it is really a niche peice even here in Alaska.   I wouldn't buy one unless you know you need it (basically high altitude mountaineering). I am keeping mine as i really like it for standing around in the cold when ice cragging or winter camping with mild approaches. However, even in -15 it is a luxury rather than a nessesary item.   I get more flexibility with less weigh using a lighter belay jacket (nilas) with my breathable midlayer (nano air etc). 

Jason Schmidt · · Cache Me Ousside · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 15

I mainly climb Mt Hood(11,240ft) in the winter. Starting around 1am-ish, so it's pretty cold.

Bottoms:
REI smart wool expedition socks
under armor synthetic underwear
under armor medium base layer
MH Quasar Light hard shell pant (or if I know for sure the weather window is good, the usual MH Dragon pant)

Top:
OR Mt Baker Glove/Mitts
Synthetic t-shirt
Patagonia R1 hoodie
MH Hardshell
When stopped for breaks, I throw on my MH Ghost Whisperer w/Hood over top everything.

Roots · · Wherever I am · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

How do I layer?

-I layer...

AlpineIce · · Upstate, NY · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 255

The Absolute Zero jacket is overkill for anything south of Alaska or northern Canada in the depths of winter, or the high elevations of Logan, Alaska Range.  Even then, though...  As mentioned above, it's a niche item with specificity in high-altitude mountaineering; 7000-8000M peaks.  If technical climbing in winter is your objective, then you'd probably never see any modern alpinist humping all that weight even in the northern remote ranges.  If you want a very warm down belay jacket, look at the Rab Positron Pro Jacket.

Sean Fujimori · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 6
Fritz Nuffer wrote: As I teach my Latin students: semper ubi sic ubi -- "always where under where."

That says "always where thus where"... 

Super Fluke wrote:
When it comes to layering, don't mix fabrics, base and mid layers should be the same material otherwise they can restrict breath-ability, the last thing you want is to trap in moisture.
Can you explain this more please? Are you saying that any different materials trap moisture, or specific combinations?
Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
s kf wrote:

That says "always where thus where"... 

Can you explain this more please? Are you saying that any different materials trap moisture, or specific combinations?

For the love of god it better be a troll, because it’s one of the stupidest things I have ever read on the internet.

plastic princess · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 0
Fritz Nuffer wrote:

.... with apologies for the microagression, Latin being an obvious tool of the patriarchy to suppress dissent and establish heteronormative cisgender status quo (apologies for the microagression within a microagression).


I hope you realize the irony of being angry about people getting angry before people get angry at you....

Andrew Lamb · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 16
m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/New…

Recently read this article which has changed the way I'm going to approach climbing (ice in hyalite, alpine in pnw) this winter. Obviously not an average Joe set up for ice craggin but in terms of the layering discussion I find it very interesting. Also in Alaska so similar environment.

TL;DR:
Colin Hailey climbs Begguya (Mt. Hunter) solo really fast with almost nothing on: (Patagonia unless brand stated)

Outer to inner
Top: - 2  micro puffs
         - houdini jacket
         - nano air VEST
         - nano air jacket
         - capilene "thermal weight" fleece
         - airshead pullover
         - capilene balaclava
         
  Bottoms: - das pants
                   - houdini pants
                   - nano air light pants
                   - capilene boxer briefs
                   
    Footwear: - batura 2.0 (la sportiva)
                       - lightwieght ski sock
                       - rab vapor barrier sock
                       - ultralight liner sock
                       
     Gloves: - showa atlas tem res 282... I just bought these on Amazon and added a guantlet like Colin and am very excited to test these against other much more expensive glove options
                    - black Diamond gloves probably like the enforcers
Jakob Melchior · · Basel, CH · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
                     
     Gloves: - showa atlas tem res 282... I just bought these on Amazon and added a guantlet like Colin and am very excited to test these against other much more expensive glove options
I just got a pair as well but haven't gotten around to add a gauntlet yet. Did you add it to the very end or did you cut a bit off? I feel like the very end might be a bit too wide to add the gauntlet there which might result in the material folding over.
Could you please share what fabric you used and maybe a picture?
B Jolley · · Utah · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 172
s kf wrote:

Can you explain this more please? Are you saying that any different materials trap moisture, or specific combinations?

Different fabrics have different absorption properties.

Some technical fabrics and wool (+-0.4% water absorption) wick moisture away from your skin, keeping you warm and dry. Cotton (7% water absorption) dose not. NEVER WEAR COTTON for winter adventures. Try to layer with fabrics that are the same so you get the same wicking properties throughout.

For example, If your base layer is marino wool and your mid layer is a cotton sweater, the cotton sweater will trap the moisture nullifying the properties of the wool keeping moisture trapped inside.
chris b · · woodinville, wa · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 11
Super Fluke wrote:

Different fabrics have different absorption properties.

Some technical fabrics and wool (+-0.4% water absorption) wick moisture away from your skin, keeping you warm and dry. Cotton (7% water absorption) dose not. NEVER WEAR COTTON for winter adventures. Try to layer with fabrics that are the same so you get the same wicking properties throughout.

For example, If your base layer is marino wool and your mid layer is a cotton sweater, the cotton sweater will trap the moisture nullifying the properties of the wool keeping moisture trapped inside.

the correct way to phrase that is: "Don't wear cotton"

the way you phrased it, i and everybody else took it to mean "don't wear a merino wool base layer, a polyester fleece, and a nylon shell" which is of course absurd.
B Jolley · · Utah · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 172
Chris Blatchley wrote:

the correct way to phrase that is: "Don't wear cotton"

the way you phrased it, i and everybody else took it to mean "don't wear a merino wool base layer, a polyester fleece, and a nylon shell" which is of course absurd.

Didn't realize it's so confusing. For base and mid layers only (inside your jacket), wear the same fabric. Your shell will most defiantly be different material(s). As far as best wicking fabrics wool is the best, technical fabrics (i.e polyester) are good and cotton is bad. Yes, even wearing polyester on top of wool is restricting, thus all inside layers should be the same fabric, not cotton or yer gonna die.

F r i t z · · (Currently on hiatus, new b… · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 1,155
s kf wrote:

That says "always where thus where"... 

Can you explain this more please? Are you saying that any different materials trap moisture, or specific combinations?

Correct, typo. Should be semper ubi sub ubi

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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