Autolocking or screw gate

Solid carabiner for belay/rappel device.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/locking-carabiner/petzl-smd-twist-lock

I've got around 10 years on 3 magnetrons and love them. One has finally started misbehaving just this year. I don't climb ice, only rock.

For my rappel biner, for cragging I like the Metolius steel tri-action. You have to pull up, then twist. It's almost a lifetime biner...they don't wear like aluminum. Now they have those steel insert aluminum lockers that look promising if weight is a concern. I'm not sure they still sell the Magnatron. Recently I got a single twist BD locker to use with my REVO and GriGri...but only because my arthritic fingers complain about the Magnetron. They make some very narrow keylock lockers that fit into narrow or crowded hangars. Good to have those for your PAS.

Anna Brown wrote:

Solid carabiner for belay/rappel device.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/locking-carabiner/petzl-smd-twist-lock

I’ve used lots of lockers, including the magnetron.

This Petzl is the best by far in my opinion. I will replace most of my lockers with these as needed. 

Anna Brown wrote:

Solid carabiner for belay/rappel device.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/locking-carabiner/petzl-smd-twist-lock

These are my all-time favorite lockers.

thepirate1 wrote:

-I personally have no experience with the "tri" type auto-lockers.  These sound encouraging, but I don't see any good videos or other explanations about them, nor do I have any reports about how easy they are to operate in the dark with gloves on. -Anybody use Petzl sm'D triact lock?  is that difficult with gloves or doesn't work well in ice/snow?

Petzl's triple-action auto-lockers are called "triact". They have the smoothes triple action I have ever used. Even DMM's triples (safelock) isn't as smooth or usable. Petzl's also has the grippiest grip pattern by far.
Petzl'S doubles, called "twist lock", also have a good grip pattern with additional notches, but I wouldn't never use a double lock for anything out-of-sight or reach.
Because I solo a lot, I often choose to use two light (Petzl Agnes & Camp 22) non-lockers opposed for out-of-sight applications like anchors. Depending on situation, I trust two non-lockers more that one locker. Out-of-sight carabiners do strange things.

The triple action is easy to open with one hand. Just poke your ring finger through the bottom basket, then shove the gate upwards with your thumb, then twist and open. Triples are good for belaying and rappelling, but less great for anchors and other things where the orientation changes or partners need to use them too. The photo is of my trusty bm'd with Ansi gate and very high breaking strength. I use it for belaying and lead soloing. 

Noel Z wrote:

Petzl's triple-action auto-lockers are called "triact". They have the smoothes triple action I have ever used. Even DMM's triples (safelock) isn't as smooth or usable. Petzl's also has the grippiest grip pattern by far.
Petzl'S doubles, called "twist lock", also have a good grip pattern with additional notches, but I wouldn't never use a double lock for anything out-of-sight or reach.

Dear Noel: 

This was awesome - just what I was looking for.  Thank you so much.   I think I'm converging here:  

    -If you can just verify that triacts are good in snow and ice, easily operated with gloves...? 

    -And can I summarize what you said with, "triacts are easy to use and offer one more level of anti-unlocking over the twist lock; maybe they're not ideal for where you can't see"?

The triact (55g) is of interest to me because my very old stubai twist-lock (see Note1) can now be unlocked with one finger run along the sleeve. So, I have some kind of fear that eventually the spring in any sleeve will weaken and be the same, ineffective after a bit of age. 

You talked about application: I am looking for a locker to use for my personal rap/belay device, for trad and ice. Yes, sometimes I clip it out-of-the way behind me, but that never bothered me with my previous auto-locker. (I use light screw gates for anchors and etc., and as someone said above, one can always use double non-lockers. A very experienced climber once pointed out to me that double opposed and reversed non-lockers are ALWAYS safer than lockers. (I hope no one jumps all over me for that)).

I will add to that a summary of comments from others:

-Many folks love magnetron, but it's not recommended for snow/ice.  (Magnetron Vapor Lock 56 g)

-Petzl Twist-Lock (51 g) gets lots of love here.

and...

-I tried some model (can't figure out which one now) of Metolius auto twist-lock at a Sports Basement, and the twist lock was just very positive and confidence-inspiring. That isn't the same as climbing with it for a couple years, but that's what I know. 

Thanks all, 

-TPC

Note1: My old stubai has a sleeve that is spring-loaded, AND a little detent that you have to lift and turn to lock. I remember it as being pretty positive when I bought it, but like I said, all it takes is the length of one finger gently running across the sleeve and it completely unlocks...and stays there.  The extra detent does pretty much nothing at this time. This despite cleaning and lubricating it.  So, I want something that locks a little more positively. 

Depends on how much snow and ice you pack into them, they will freeze up if you pack them full....As I mentioned before the triact I don't find easy to operate single handed with or without gloves because orientation does matter and then there's the weird finger thing that you have to do that Noel pictured so well....Seriously look at Petzl's ball lock carabiners. They are still a triple acting locking carabiner, you get can it in the Am'd model and are MUCH easier to operate single handed (gloved or not) than any of the other triple locking carabiners out there.

Bryan L wrote:

Depends on how much snow and ice you pack into them, they will freeze up if you pack them full....As I mentioned before the triact I don't find easy to operate single handed with or without gloves because orientation does matter and then there's the weird finger thing that you have to do that Noel pictured so well....Seriously look at Petzl's ball lock carabiners. They are still a triple acting locking carabiner, you get can it in the Am'd model and are MUCH easier to operate single handed (gloved or not) than any of the other triple locking carabiners out there.

I read some review somewhere that said they *did* get gummed up by mud, dirt, snow or something.  So, I'm a little leary.  Do you use yours ice climbing and in the alpine? 

I *was* thinking that my Stubai had some kind of locking lift  thing, and I could handle that, but as you have warned me against that, it  the Petzl triact may be completely different in practice.  Most gear stores don't have any gear any more, they say to order it on-line.  However, I'll hit the stores this weekend and try what they do have with gloves on, and keep your advice in mind.  

Thanks!

-TPC

Grivel twin gates and call it a day. East to do one handed

thepirate1 wrote:

I read some review somewhere that said they *did* get gummed up by mud, dirt, snow or something.  So, I'm a little leary.  Do you use yours ice climbing and in the alpine? 

I *was* thinking that my Stubai had some kind of locking lift  thing, and I could handle that, but as you have warned me against that, it  the Petzl triact may be completely different in practice.  Most gear stores don't have any gear any more, they say to order it on-line.  However, I'll hit the stores this weekend and try what they do have with gloves on, and keep your advice in mind.  

Thanks!

-TPC

My day job is that of an arborist, so my carabiners get sawdust, mud, and dirt thrown at them all day long in all kinds of weather and I don't have much issue with 'biners getting gummed up from those conditions. During the winters I don't have issues with them freezing up, though we're not typically using them in a ton of snow. I don't ice climb (we don't get much good ice here in VA), so I can't speak to that front. I currently have both the Petzl Triacts (I bought these 10 years ago because I needed some lockers and the store didn't have ball locks in stock at that the time) and Ball Locks. The Triacts have now be relegated to things that I don't unclip from my harness but only once in a blue moon because they are difficult to operate single handed. The Ball locks I've been using for close to 20 years now and they all perform well and are easy to operate single handed. The only issue that I've seen with them over the years was the early versions had a plastic locking mechanism on the gate which was prone to cracking if it was impacted in someway....so now all of the gate parts are metal. 

thepirate1 wrote:

I think I'm converging here:  

    -If you can just verify that triacts are good in snow and ice, easily operated with gloves...? 

    -And can I summarize what you said with, "triacts are easy to use and offer one more level of anti-unlocking over the twist lock; maybe they're not ideal for where you can't see"?

Regarding Petzl Triact:
Yes, Triact carabiners can be opened with one hand after practicing it a dozen or so times.
Yes, the quality of the grip means Triacts can be used with gloves.
No, I would not use a Triact or a Twist lock for ice climbing. For that I use Petzl Sm'd screws. Petzl screw carabiners have hole for clearing the recess should an ice or dirt build up. The hole also helps water, ice and dort to not form in the firce place. The Triacts or Twists don't have this hole and clogging might be a concern. I climb sport, trad, alpine and mixed and my goto carabiner is the Petzl Sm'd Screw. For applications where you need to double up, the Sm'd has a non-locking twin, the Petzl Sm'D Wall, which has the same geometry, so can pair with the Sm'd screw opposed, so you get two opposed carabiners, one of which is screw. 

---

Some triple action carabiner eventually become dual action. It depends on how cleanly one opens the carabiner, how well it is made and how old it it. The edge making it a triple action gets rounded off turning it into a type of dual action. The carabiner is still okay, just not a tirple action any more. This has never happened to any Petzl carabiner of mine.

I prefer autlockers, my screw gates have been downgraded to non climbing purposes. One thing to note is some autolockers suck to unlock left handed. Magnetrons are my favorite because the are easy to use with either hand and easy to open.

TRIACT NOT AVAILABLE IN MUNTER-COMPATIBLE SIZE (i believe). 

To continue this madness (avoiding a screw-gate belay biner, because they so often stick open or closed), here are some real-world data: 

* highly scientific sample of various biners (i.e. I tried out whatever REI had in stock) showed that most twist-lock autolockers these days are rather good, including the metolius (which might be really heavy?) and inspire confidence.  So, why not quit here....? 

* The Petzl triact is absolutely amazing. I mean there is just NO WAY I could run my finger across it and make it move at all, in contrast to my old Stubai. I just cannot believe any form of rope movement, no matter how pressure is applied, could open this.

But, is it practical to use in the alpine?
-With a thin glove, I had little trouble unclipping this from a waist loop behind my back.
-with a really huge ski-type glove (you can't  do anything in these ice climbing, never could clip with these) I had trouble with this, though with practice, maybe I could reliably do it in a short time. 

The triact comes on the Sm'D size,  which is supposed to stand for "small D", but it's really pear shaped, with a slightly larger pear-bottom area than what I would consider a "regular" sized oval biner.  So, it "looks" like it would be too small, certainly not ideal for a munter hitch. OK, so why don't I just select a larger biner with the gate device I prefer? 

---> Because Petzl makes the triact only in the sm'd or the am'D (which just seems like the wrong shape to me) sizes.  What if I drop my belay device and want to use a munter hitch?  Can’t I buy a bigger biner with this lock? No! -their "William" or real HMS sized biner, only comes in screw-gate or ball-lock.  The ball lock is not good for mud, dirt environments.  (OurdoorGearLabs *speculated* that twist-lock, and presumably triacts *could* get jammed up with ice/snow, but they didn’t actually see that happen (nor did they test for it)). Someone else here said the triacts are fine in the alpine. 

So, time to test munter hitches on small biners...I went home and found a petzl spirit locker, I think very very similar in size to the Sm’D from pictures, also, the sm’D triact and the spirit screw gate have the same opening size, 18 mm. Finally, the Sm’D appears to have a larger, more straight “bottom of the pear” area, i.e. better shape for munter than the spirit.  Anyway, I tied a munter hitch with a fuzzy 10.2 mm rope on the Spirit and used it for belay without serious problems.  However, rigging a two-strand munter for rappel, I found that the knot balled up badly.  I would probably not do this even in an emergency (unless I practiced a LOT to avoid this issue somehow).   

So, um, I guess that means I can get the triact, but I have to carry some kind of ultra-light emergency sticht plate in case I drop my belay device? 

-TPC

thepirate1 wrote:

TRIACT NOT AVAILABLE IN MUNTER-COMPATIBLE SIZE (i believe). 

I live in Germany where we use the Munter extensively. Nearly all Petzl locking Carabiners are compatible with Munter, just not the Spirit. To be exact, sm'D, am'D, William and Attache. Even Munters using half ropes works with an  sm'D. I have seen sm'Ds in use all over the Nothern Alps and Dolomites. Just choose how you want it to lock.

The round and deep basket of all the Petzl Ds allows the Munter to flip easily. You don't need a pear/HMS 'biner. 

So, um, I guess that means I can get the triact, but I have to carry some kind of ultra-light emergency sticht plate in case I drop my belay device? 

Use a Monster Munter for emergency rappels. It has lots of friction and doesn't twist your rope.

Noel Z wrote:

I live in Germany where we use the Munter extensively. 

Somebody should open a store and start selling belay devices. They’re pretty fantastic. 

Marc H wrote:

Somebody should open a store and start selling belay devices. They’re pretty fantastic. 

Right….

Just gotta echo others. Grivel double gates are great. I find ‘‘em easy to operate one handed.

Grivel quality seems to just be extremely high as well. I expect many years of good use out the grivels I have. Also the clepsydra s is very small and compact. Great for weight savings. It also is crossload preventing and all that. 

Petzl makes a hell of a carabiner and my preference to this discussion is the ball locks. Triacts are fine but just too overly complicated for single hand action without tons of practice. I carried one for weeks just opening and closing to try and get used to it one handed. Never found a great method. I’d rather not deal with a triact whilst pumped or with cold hands on ice. Ball lock is super easy one handed but can’t speak to ice and mud. I only take steel autos and screw locks when I go canyoneering and am still fairly new to ice.

. 

David K wrote: Magnets do lose their magnetism by exposure to other magnetic fields which cause the polarization of the magnet to mis-align. I don't know how long that will take for the Magnetrons because they haven't been out that long, like I said, it's just a durability concern, and I wouldn't be surprised if time proves that it's not an issue. But given there are well-documented problems with helmets with magnetic clasps losing magnetism, it's not farfetched. Strong magnets wouldn't be a concern for a very long time, but they may have to use a weaker magnet to make it possible/easy to open.

It’s definitely possible but I think the larger concern is that metal particles can clog up the surface over time and reduce the surface area of the magnet and metal pieces that cause the locking action. More a concern if you climb in the dessert and never clean or inspect your gear, but I’ve definitely experienced weaker locking action. 

Noel Z wrote:

I live in Germany where we use the Munter extensively. Nearly all Petzl locking Carabiners are compatible with Munter, just not the Spirit. To be exact, sm'D, am'D, William and Attache. Even Munters using half ropes works with an  sm'D. I have seen sm'Ds in use all over the Nothern Alps and Dolomites. Just choose how you want it to lock.

The round and deep basket of all the Petzl Ds allows the Munter to flip easily. You don't need a pear/HMS 'biner. 

Use a Monster Munter for emergency rappels. It has lots of friction and doesn't twist your rope.

Dear Noel: 

Thank you SO MIUCH for that picture and your advice.  Just one thing:  You are picturing a single strand rappel.   How would that work getting off a multi-pitch climb?  I suppose my partner would have to rap down first, then somehow affix both strands so I could rap down just one? 

Can I ask if your biner right there would really work on that rope on a two-stranded rappel? 

Thanks so much, 

-TPC

thepirate1 wrote:

Dear Noel: 

Thank you SO MIUCH for that picture and your advice.  Just one thing:  You are picturing a single strand rappel.   How would that work getting off a multi-pitch climb?  I suppose my partner would have to rap down first, then somehow affix both strands so I could rap down just one? 

Can I ask if your biner right there would really work on that rope on a two-stranded rappel? 

Thanks so much, 

-TPC

Biner block, you go first. Same as rapping with a Grigri.