Autolocking or screw gate

I am just beginning to build my gear collection and I want to buy a locking carabiner for belaying. I am choosing between an autolocker or a screw gate carabiner. I have forgotten to lock a screw gate a few times before so an autolocker seems kind of worth it. Other than price what are the downsides to autolockers. Are they more susceptible to locking up in grime or dirt than screwgates? Freezing up is not a huge concern because I don't ice climb. Also after visiting REI I really liked how the magnetron carabiners worked, how reliable are they in the field?

David Fox wrote: Other than price what are the downsides to autolockers.

They can be more annoying to open one-handed. That might not matter to what you're doing.

Just be aware that screwgates coming unscrewed is a real thing. But, again, that might not matter to what you're doing.

If you have already forgotten to lock a screwgate a couple of times then you should not buy an assisted locking carabiner. You need to get better at hitting everything before your double checks and the assisted locking carabiner will likely make you more complacent at this stage. IMO.

Bryan wrote: If you have already forgotten to lock a screwgate a couple of times then you should not buy an assisted locking carabiner. You need to get better at hitting everything before your double checks and the assisted locking carabiner will likely make you more complacent at this stage. IMO.

Not sure I buy this logic. Why does it matter if he gets more complacent about screwing tight lockers if he doesn't carry any lockers?

David Fox wrote: I am just beginning to build my gear collection and I want to buy a locking carabiner for belaying. I am choosing between an autolocker or a screw gate carabiner. I have forgotten to lock a screw gate a few times before so a autolocker seems kind of worth it. Other than price what are the downsides to autolockers. Are they more susceptible to locking up in grime or dirt than screwgates? Freezing up is not a huge concern because I don't ice climb. Also after visiting REI I really liked how the magnetron carabiners worked, how reliable are they in the field?

I recently replaced a pretty large collection of screwlocks with auto-lockers and sold all my screwlocks. I'll caution you against buying any auto-locker you can't clip AND unclip from things one-handed with ease. That pretty much limits you to dual-action auto-lockers, not triple-action auto-lockers. The magnetrons will lose their magnetism eventually, and there are durability concerns with other auto-lockers as well. But overall I think autolockers are a step up in safety, and that alone makes them worth it to me.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

I recently replaced a pretty large collection of screwlocks with auto-lockers and sold all my screwlocks. I'll caution you against buying any auto-locker you can't clip AND unclip from things one-handed with ease. That pretty much limits you to dual-action auto-lockers, not triple-action auto-lockers. The magnetrons will lose their magnetism eventually, and there are durability concerns with other auto-lockers as well. But overall I think autolockers are a step up in safety, and that alone makes them worth it to me.

How does a magnet lose it's magnetism? That should be impossible for a natural magnet.

I had this problem too when I first started out climbing. I bought an auto-locking biner for belaying because there were too many times when I would look down and see I hadn't locked my belay biner--most likely because being on the ground, talking with your partner, etc, made me less vigilant. So I switched to an auto-locker (twist-open when I was belaying with ATCs, and the belay-specific magnetron once I got my GriGri because I was/am an insufferable noveau riche type. That being said, once I began transitioning into trad, especially multi-pitch trad, I got very into the habit of locking screwgates very quickly as I learned to check and re-check anchors; now locking screwgates is second nature to me. Keep in mind also that if you want to transition into ice/alpine/multipitch, the extra expense, complexity and weight of auto-lockers (and, in the case of Magnetrons, the tendency for snow to get stuck in the notches) will become a serious liability.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

The magnetrons will lose their magnetism eventually

Source for this claim? Since when do magnets stop being magnets?

David Fox wrote:

How does a magnet lose it's magnetism? That should be impossible for a natural magnet.

I'd like to hear an explanation on this one as well.  

Personally I use a magnatron as an auto-locker for my belay devices because they are easier to open, I can do it one-handed, and I don't have to worry about it coming unlocked.

Do yourself a solid favor and get a screw gate. It's best to get the safety thought process dialed in when you're first starting than getting lazy and not checking a screw gate biner to ensure its locked. That way, if you ever place a screw gate biner in yours hands, you'll automatically lock it. Get a  Petzl screw gate Because if you show red, your dead. 

David Fox wrote:

How does a magnet lose it's magnetism? That should be impossible for a natural magnet.

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae472.cfm

Impossible for a natural magnet to lose its magnetism? No, it is definitely possible.
A quick look at the Blackdiamond site did not say what kind of magnet they use, but Nd magnets are fairly popular so there's a good chance they use those.  So should you worry about them losing their magnetism? Probably not, don't stick it in a furnace and be careful climbing around MRI machines.

To the OP, I have both auto-locking and screw gates and use them both.  My auto-lockers are all larger so I find them easier for clove hitching the rope to at a belay station or for belay devices.  The screw gates (that I have) tend to be smaller so I use them for setting up a top rope anchor that I won't be looking at the whole time.  For that position the large end of the biner pointing down so that the barrel screws down to lock. "Screw down so you don't screw up"

David Kerkeslager wrote:

The magnetrons will lose their magnetism eventually, and there are durability concerns with other auto-lockers as well.

Just posting to beat the dead horse. I too would like an explanation of this.

I use to sell industrial permanent magnets and my understanding is less than 1% of flux density in magnets will be loss over 100 years.

The only issue I've seen with the Magnatron lockers is, the steel pieces the magnet attracts too can fall out, making the locker not magnetic. I use this locker for my belay and I like it.

I have been using a magnatron for my belay/repel locker for about 5 years now and love it. Easy one hand operation. I have never had it fail to lock in a real world situation. I can make it get stuck open if I intentionally hold the magnets closed and gently let it close and even then any bit of bumping with make it close. My wife uses a triple lock Petzl locker and I hate it. It is a pain to open one handed, and it gets stuck open all the time. My wife doesn't have the same problem I do. I think I tend to hold the locking mechanism too long when closing the biner. I have heard of some wear issues with the magnatrons, however mine does not show excessive wear after 5 years of moderate to heavy use, 2+ gym sessions a week and outdoors every other weekend or so.

TL;DR get a magnatron.

Weight and size.  Probably doesn't matter unless you climb long routes with long approachs. Get whatever you like best and can use correctly. Unfortunately if you have caught yourself belaying with an un-screwed locking carabiner you, and your partner, have made a pretty big error. 

Generally I don't use them too much for belaying, but I find autolockers most helpful for slightly speeding up longer rappels (clipping to an anchor one handed).

Story time: before I started to climb, on a ropes course, I witnessed a single action twist type auto-locker come unlocked. The camper was at the top of a net obstacle, so I've been wary of those types (someone went up the net super quick and put him back on,... he had a bit of the death grip).

I'll second the issues in the winter for the BD magnetron carabiner.. I've had it freeze the release mechanism one time (and never used it again in the winter)... what a pain to get unstuck... but for the other seasons (and mostly in the gym) I like using it with a gri-gri. I'll still generally choose a screw lock for belaying with a tubular/plate type device.

My favorite is a Petzl Ball-Lock type, recently got a newer version that is slightly lighter, but I've only had to clean the older one once, and the action still works like new.

Just a note, just like grigri, which people falsely assume to be autolocking and even hands free, auto lock biners can also have failure modes if you don't check them. You have to check just like everything else. You can get things caught in the gate opening and the spring mechanism can fail to engage in certain circumstances. For belaying, they are my favorites, but they are not foolproof. MyCurrent favorite is Edelrid bullet proof: https://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/locking-carabiners/hms-bulletproof-triple-fg.html c

Don’t get it twisted. The magnetron biners work fine year around and year after year if you don’t get them wet. 

Both!

Unless you plan on buying all auto-lockers, just get in the habit of checking them. Auto-lockers are really for the industrial market where they are mandatory and weight is far less of a concern..

Going to suggest an alternative:

Grivel Dual Gate Lambda.  

I dont think I will go back to locking gates.

I've been really happy with the Grivel twin gate lockers, in particular the Clepsydra for the mega jul and the Clepsydra S for my grigri.