M Grades to YDS

Seems with mixed climbing being quite niche, the question often is asked, "How does M** compare to 5.**?"

I took a minute and put together what I thought was accurate at least in my experience (not that I have even climbed close to these top grades). This of course varies for individuals as different climbing disciplines do not always correlate - but simply to help people understand the amount of effort one might need to put in, this small list should be helpful.

m4 - 5.8
m5 - 5.9
m6 - 5.9+
m7 - 5.10
m8 - 5.11
m9 - 5.11+
m10 - 5.12
m11 - 5.12+
m12 - 5.13
m13 - 5.13+
m14 - 5.14
m15 - 5.14+
m16 - 5.15

Commenting for future reference.

Additionally, a note from the Alpinist:

Mixed Grade:

These routes require considerable dry tooling (modern ice tools used on bare rock) and are climbed in crampons; actual ice is optional but some ice is usually involved.

M1-3: Easy. Low angle; usually no tools.
M4: Slabby to vertical with some technical dry tooling.
M5: Some sustained vertical dry tooling.
M6: Vertical to overhanging with difficult dry tooling.
M7: Overhanging; powerful and technical dry tooling; less than 10m of hard climbing.
M8: Some nearly horizontal overhangs requiring very powerful and technical dry tooling; bouldery or longer cruxes than M7.
M9: Either continuously vertical or slightly overhanging with marginal or technical holds, or a juggy roof of 2 to 3 body lengths.
M10: At least 10 meters of horizontal rock or 30 meters of overhanging dry tooling with powerful moves and no rests.
M11: A ropelength of overhanging gymnastic climbing, or up to 15 meters of roof.
M12: M11 with bouldery, dynamic moves and tenuous technical holds.

Souce: http://www.alpinist.com/p/online/grades

Very useful Ian. Awesome. Seems like with the OP and your comment, there should be pretty good understanding of whats involved in mixed grades. 

I also like this post on Northeast Ice: https://www.neice.com/eguide1/ratings-for-climbing/

Not that I have done much mixed on anything other than Top Rope, where it really didn't matter and I was not quite sure how hard it was. Definitely want to do a bit more mixed climbing this year, not quite sure which routes/where to go to get started. Trollville looks promising.

Being from the NorthEast I've always used the ratings in the link above.  I think they were first published in Rick Wilcox's ice climbing guide. Anyway, most New England and Adirondack mixed climbs be rated such;  of course ALL ratings are subjective and can easily be + / - one or so grades.

Robert Hall wrote: Being from the NorthEast I've always used the ratings in the link above.  I think they were first published in Rick Wilcox's ice climbing guide. Anyway, most New England and Adirondack mixed climbs be rated such;  of course ALL ratings are subjective and can easily be + / - one or so grades.

Actually that old rating guide is what caused me to write this new one up to begin with. I was just talking with Doug (NEice) about how it maybe needs a bit of a rewrite.

actually M anything = some kind of aid.. but I will admit that even though it is aid it certainly feels hard as heck.

Ian Overton wrote: Commenting for future reference.

Additionally, a note from the Alpinist:

Mixed Grade:

These routes require considerable dry tooling (modern ice tools used on bare rock) and are climbed in crampons; actual ice is optional but some ice is usually involved.

M1-3: Easy. Low angle; usually no tools.
M4: Slabby to vertical with some technical dry tooling.
M5: Some sustained vertical dry tooling.
M6: Vertical to overhanging with difficult dry tooling.
M7: Overhanging; powerful and technical dry tooling; less than 10m of hard climbing.
M8: Some nearly horizontal overhangs requiring very powerful and technical dry tooling; bouldery or longer cruxes than M7.
M9: Either continuously vertical or slightly overhanging with marginal or technical holds, or a juggy roof of 2 to 3 body lengths.
M10: At least 10 meters of horizontal rock or 30 meters of overhanging dry tooling with powerful moves and no rests.
M11: A ropelength of overhanging gymnastic climbing, or up to 15 meters of roof.
M12: M11 with bouldery, dynamic moves and tenuous technical holds.

Souce: http://www.alpinist.com/p/online/grades

This isn't a bad start, but certainly an over simplification of grades. In North America we keep thinking that longer routes = harder routes, but fact of the matter is that we are always holding onto jugs and once you gain the endurance to shake out on jugs on steep terrain making a route longer doesn't really add that much to the grade.

You can make routes more technical, but in terms of climbing outside, that isn't sustainable either in the limestone caves we most frequently drytool in. Picks (especially ones like the Krukonogi picks) will gore out softer rock and (depending on the traffic for the area) a skatey/sketchy hold soon becomes sinker.

Hard pulls and hard releases are what really start to separate the grades, especially in the harder grade ranges. Most people will fall off when taking the hit from a hard release instead of from the difficulty of the initial move.

There are several strong sport climbers who have sent top end mixed routes their first season on tools, the reverse is not true.

At the end of the day are you psyched? Drytooling is a lot of fun. Without it I would spend far less time hanging out in grotty disgusting rotten caves!

I agree to a point but in the end it really depends on the route. Some routes have perfect pick torques and is basically a jug haul on tools if there are even micro edges for your front points. On the other hand, a low angle slabby route could be a cruise with rock gear, but terrifyingly insecure with tools and crampons.

The hardest thing about climbing hard mixed routes is warming up properly and staying warm...