Does anybody have any experience with this or know what could have happened/how to prevent it? I was climbing ricochet at Holcomb valley pinnacles yesterday and the QuickDraw came off the second bolt just as my feet went above the bolt. I had a groundfall from just under the 3rd bolt (about 25 feet) and broke my leg. Writing this from my hospital bed, just trying to figure out how it could have happened and how to prevent it in the future. Thanks in advance for any wisdom
The bolt end biner can unclip when pushed up just right. This can be more common with certain shaped hangers and certain shaped glue-in bolts (all depending on the shape of your bolt-end biner).
To prevent it from happening: 1) don't put rubber keepers on both ends of a quickdraw (this was a "thing" for a while, think it was mid-'90s), since then it's easier for the bolt end biner to unclip. 2) flip the bolt end biner after clipping (as Jake suggested). 3) double up the draws for essential bolts, clip them opposite (feels kind of ridiculous...but it's effective). Best to use a slightly longer draw for the "upper" draw. 4) use a double-locker draw (aka "granny draw" or "anchor draw") - this feels even more ridiculous, and I rarely use a granny draw except when doing ground-up new routes (where you don't know which way you'll end up climbing or how big the fall might be...), but again it's effective.
Of course it's more likely to happen if you are scraping your leg up past the draw as you climb.
I've had the rope end of a quickdraw become unclipped while climbing. Wasn't back clipped but somehow once I was roughly six feet above the bolt I hear a "clip" noise, look down and see the rope no longer in captured by the carabiner. My belayer had no clue how it happened.
Greg Barnes wrote: The bolt end biner can unclip when pushed up just right. This can be more common with certain shaped hangers and certain shaped glue-in bolts (all depending on the shape of your bolt-end biner).
To prevent it from happening: 1) don't put rubber keepers on both ends of a quickdraw (this was a "thing" for a while, think it was mid-'90s), since then it's easier for the bolt end biner to unclip. 2) flip the bolt end biner after clipping (as Jake suggested). 3) double up the draws for essential bolts, clip them opposite (feels kind of ridiculous...but it's effective). Best to use a slightly longer draw for the "upper" draw. 4) use a double-locker draw (aka "granny draw" or "anchor draw") - this feels even more ridiculous, and I rarely use a granny draw except when doing ground-up new routes (where you don't know which way you'll end up climbing or how big the fall might be...), but again it's effective.
Of course it's more likely to happen if you are scraping your leg up past the draw as you climb.
These are great tips, thank you. By granny draw do you mean locking carbiner? And when you double up the QuickDraws on one bolt, do the draws still have enough space to move around/change angles as you climb? This sounds like the best solution I think, always always double up on the second bolt or a bolt or two past a ledge.
Sometimes the draw can get pulled up and the gate can get opened by the hanger in such a way that it unclips itself from the wall. Usually this happens when you clip the rope side of the draw to the rock by accident, since the rubber keeper keeps the dogbone from moving freely on the carabiner and causes the carabiner to rotate with the dogbone.
This can occur if the gate or nose of the biner passes through the hole of the bolt. if the quick draw gets giggled just the right way during a fall, then the bolt can torque the gate open and the nose out.
Flipping the bolt end biner 180 degrees like Greg suggested, or using a locker is probably the best way to prevent this from happening.
Another thing you can do to reduce the likelihood is to always clip the bolt with the gate facing away from you. For example, if the bolt is on your right, then poke the nose of the biner through the left side of the hanger. As long as the route doesn't wander, and the rope continues to run on the same side of the bolt, then the spine of the biner will pass through the hole of the hanger and not the gate.
cyclestupor wrote: This can occur if the gate or nose of the biner passes through the hole of the bolt. if the quick draw gets giggled just the right way during a fall, then the bolt can torque the gate open and the nose out.
Flipping the bolt end biner 180 degrees like Greg suggested, or using a locker is probably the best way to prevent this from happening.
Another thing you can do to reduce the likelihood is to always clip the bolt with the gate facing away from you. For example, if the bolt is on your right, then poke the nose of the biner through the left side of the hanger. As long as the route doesn't wander, and the rope continues to run on the same side of the bolt, then the spine of the biner will pass through the hole of the hanger and not the gate.
Clip the bolt with the gates facing away from your direction of traverse. This may differ from clipping with the gates facing away from you when you first clip in. I don’t remember Ricochet but I’m sure I’ve done it at some point. I’ll take a look and see if anything unusual pops up in my dumb brain. That’s super-unusual though. What brand of draw were you using?
That’s a shitty place to break a leg too, by the way. How did you get to the hospital? What bone(s) did you break? Prognosis? Wishing you a speedy and full recovery muchacho. Not you, the guy I quoted, unless you are suffering from some sort of ailment, just to be clear. I mean the OP that decked. I quoted you to try to clarify the gate orientation thing.
I have had this happen once before on a short slabby sport route. When I got to the anchors I reached down, pulled up slack, and heard a distinct clip then rattling from below as the last draw unclipped itself from the bolt and went sliding down the rope. Luckily I was standing on a small ledge and was able to clip the anchors. No idea how it happened and has never happened again. I was using camp wire gate draws.
Clip the bolt with the gates facing away from your direction of traverse. This may differ from clipping with the gates facing away from you when you first clip in. I don’t remember Ricochet but I’m sure I’ve done it at some point. I’ll take a look and see if anything unusual pops up in my dumb brain. That’s super-unusual though. What brand of draw were you using?
That’s a shitty place to break a leg too, by the way. How did you get to the hospital? What bone(s) did you break? Prognosis? Wishing you a speedy and full recovery muchacho.
Thanks man. I was using black diamond freewire QuickDraw. Obv never had any problems before this. Yea it was shitty, my 105 lb girlfriend acted as my left arm crutch, and I used a stick for my right arm crutch, and I hopped down the mountain (she carried all the gear also--champ). My foot landed on the rock that you start climbing from, which is a big rock at a 45 degree angle. My foot landed at the angle and my leg continued moving downward, and my tibia and fibula along with my talus dislocated from my foot and the bones were popping out of the medial side of my foot. I knew it was serious bc my toes turned blue after about 10 minutes, so there was no blood flow to my foot. Biggest miracle was that my girlfriend can't drive a stick shift car, which is my car that we drove. So she somehow managed to get us to the Loma linda emergency room--arrived a little more than 2 hours after it happened. Doctors said my foot was freezing and didn't have a pulse and could lose my foot, so they rushed me to trauma surgery. Luckily I didn't lose my foot. I have another surgery in a few days to repair my broken fibula and talus. The distal lateral part of my fibula broke off, as well as about a quarter of my talus. Hopefully the surgery will go well and I will be ok in 3-4 months.
Wow that sounds very painful. That is the exact reason why I say its a really good to know how to drive a manual car, but I suppose in a few more years that won't be too necessary. I'm glad she was able to figure it out under pressure and get you down in time to save your foot!! Best of luck on your next surgery.
BTW, flipping the bolt-end 'biner once clipped is not the best idea. When you climb past a draw like this it is quite possible for the dogbone itself to be pulled up onto the gate of the carabiner. Then, a fall can suddenly pull the dogbone back down, opening the gate and sliding right off the the carabiner in one smooth motion. This mode of failure is easy to reproduce.
For critical clips there is no substitute for using a locker or two separate draws.
I suspect, as other have already said, that the gate of your top biner was pointed toward you and as you climbed past the draw it pivoted up and somehow the gate caught and popped open on the bolt hanger. Alternately, it's possible the nose of the freewire carabiner caught the bolt hanger (they have a pretty big notch) and you just didn't notice. That made it possible to wiggle off.
It's a pretty low-odds thing that happened to you. I think if you take the two above possibilities into account moving forward you've pretty much covered your bases. While I've been known to double up draws in a few critical situations, I don't think you need to do that or use a locker on every 2nd bolt going forward.
Heal fast. Sounds like a bummer of an injury. I'm glad your foot survived.
slim
·
Sep 21, 2018
·
Unknown Hometown
· Joined Dec 2004
· Points: 1,103
i have seen this happen in person a couple times, one of the times being a bad groundfall with a heli rescue. there are a handful of reasons that this can happen, like folks have described above. another couple reasons - sometimes the location of the bolt can mangle the biners over an edge or a bulge, and sometimes a "sideways" hanger can let the draw swing around and get stuck or place the rope in a backclipped position.
i think the orientation of the biners on the draw is pretty important. i am adamant about both gates facing the same direction so that you have a definite line of strength. you will hear a lot of people say that it is important to have the strong side in the direction that you are climbing. this is good advice, but i think it is better to have it facing where you think you are most likely to fall. for example, you may traverse easily to the left, then go up, then make a hard traverse a long ways to the right, etc. some folks will immediately look at the first traverse and go strong side left. in this example it would probably be better to go strong side right.
on my sport rack i have a couple draws that have a locker at the bolt end, and a couple draws that have lockers at both ends. a lot of times if the first bolt is really high and has hard or weird climbing, i will use the double locker so that the rope is fully secured and when i get to the bolt i can quickly spin that locker down and have the bolt end secured. some of my friends think this is overkill, but i will take overkill over underkill anyday...
one really important thing - always make sure that the biner on the bolt side of the draw is in the loose end of the draw. i can't count how many times i have seen people rack the draws onto their harness upside down, slip a tightly banded bentgate into the hanger, and flail upwards.
I've had a pair of these draws for few years now. I don't use them all the time but I'll rack them for situations where I think a quickdraw failure would result in a really bad outcome. With practice I've found I can clip almost as easily as with a non-locker.
Bummer of an injury! Heal well! Thanks for sharing though.
A couple months ago I unclipped the third QuickDraw when I gave it a little flick to move the bottom biner out of the way of a foot as I have many times. I didn’t even know it had come unclipped until my belayer calmly alerted me. I was in the crux but going to a good hold and the fourth bolt. I looked down and saw it and realized my options were make the clip or deck from about 25 feet. I took a deep breath and made the moves and the clip. I count myself very lucky. The experience definitely left me more mindful of how close we are to disaster. I was using one of those weird mad rock anglers my friend had picked up cheap; I haven’t seen them out since and don’t think it would happened with our normal draws. I think it had to do with how stiff the whole draw was and all the extra weird metal bits gave it more torque.
Tomily ma wrote: Bummer of an injury! Heal well! Thanks for sharing though.
A couple months ago I unclipped the third QuickDraw when I gave it a little flick to move the bottom biner out of the way of a foot as I have many times. I didn’t even know it had come unclipped until my belayer calmly alerted me. I was in the crux but going to a good hold and the fourth bolt. I looked down and saw it and realized my options were make the clip or deck from about 25 feet. I took a deep breath and made the moves and the clip. I count myself very lucky. The experience definitely left me more mindful of how close we are to disaster. I was using one of those weird mad rock anglers my friend had picked up cheap; I haven’t seen them out since and don’t think it would happened with our normal draws. I think it had to do with how stiff the whole draw was and all the extra weird metal bits gave it more torque.
I have some of those mad rock anglers that I picked up sub $10 a draw, haven't had any issues with the top biner coming unclipped. I'll have to play with them some at the gym to see if i can get this issue to replicate.
Continue with onX Maps
Sign in with Facebook
