Ascending a rope as a follower on multipitch

I still have multipitch ahead of me. In talking with my friend about it, he asked if I can ascend a rope. Most definitely! It was the first thing I learned, oddly, and I have since learned to do so with a grigri, ascenders, etc. I have confidence in this.

What I don't know, and I am not finding in searches? If you are the second, getting a top belay, and find you have to ascend to get past a tough part? What do you do with the slack that accumulates? How do you deal with it, the loop of rope between your ascender and tie in?

Thanks, all! I can think of "maybe" answers, but thought I'd ask. I was surprised I couldn't find much for videos, just ascending lines, not a line you're tied into.

Best, Helen

Haven't actually done it in person but I was taught to tie stopper knots on a bite and attach them to the belay loop every 20 feet or so so you dont fall the whole length if an assender fails or something like that. Could be used in this case until you get to a good stance and your leader can take in the slack as you unclip the knots from your harness. Would love to hear from someone with more experience though

I know this isn't your question but it is another option.  Your belayer can set up a 2-1 or 3-1 and essentially haul you up a few feet to get you past the crux.  

Raising systems.
https://vimeo.com/200846829

Adam Grant wrote: I know this isn't your question but it is another option.  Your belayer can set up a 2-1 or 3-1 and essentially haul you up a few feet to get you past the crux.  

Usually a terrible option if your seconder knows how to ascend.  Have you actually done this with a real person?

-slow
-a 2-1 or 3-1 is not even close to the supposed mechanical advantage, that's even before considering friction on the route
-communication

Dylan B. wrote: As I understand the question, OLH wants to know how to transition back to free climbing after jugging the rope through a crux section.

The short answer is shenanigans. Presumably the pitch you’re climbing has been led, so find a good piece of pro or two and clip in direct while the slack is being taken in. Or get a good stance on a ledge. Or tie in short and make an alpine coil of the slack. Or just jug the rest of the pitch.

Some of this is very communication-dependent. If you can’t talk to your leader, your safest choice is probably just to jug the remainder of the pitch. It’s going to be difficult to transition from jugging to free if your belayer doesn’t know what you’re doing.

EDIT: on re-read, I guess you just wants to know what to do while you are jugging with the loop of slack that forms. The answer is what Lance wrote above:  every 10-feet or so you should tie a knot and clip it to your harness. If your pitch is really long, you might want longer loops. And yes, when you get to the top of a 60-meter pitch you’re climbing with the full rope looped off your harness and it’s an unholy mess. 

But it’s important not to leave long loops dangling 10- or 20-meters below you which could get stuck; it’s also important to back-up the ascenders by tying the knots periodically. 

No, you nailed it. I figured that a loop of rope hanging is a bad idea for lots of reasons, what to do with it, and transitioning, are the question. And, it's good to hear from those with experience, that I'm on the right track. All the options you list are ones I considered, and knowing how to saddlebag rope while going up, seems like a good skill to look up to complement my ascending skill. 

Just this Saturday, I showed a young gun the Purcell's I have (one is my personal tether), and how simple prussic hitches can get you both up, and down, a rope, rather easily. Yes, it's a workout, but the steps are really, really, easy. Top rope soloing turned out to be really straightforward rigging also, and I can apply that going forward, as well. 

As for someone hauling? I'm sure I could go up from my end much faster than they could do anything on their end. Safer, too, as I'm the one who knows what I need and where I need to get to. I'd just as soon not have my belay being messed with, if at all possible.

Best, Helen

What to do after you've prussiked past the crux is something that should be practiced. It's not as simple as grabbing the rock and yelling up, "climbing now." You need to either: remove the rope grab knots/ascenders, and in that instant free up the feet of slack you generated (not necessarily a problem if you're at a good stance or clipped directly to bomber gear), OR work the knots/devices back down the rope to you as your belayer gradually pulls the slack in from above. Unless there's absolutely no alternative, I would suggest NOT free climbing the remainder of the pitch with the knots/devices as your primary connection to the rope, regardless of how neatly you've stored away the loop(s) of slack.

Gunkiemike wrote: What to do after you've prussiked past the crux is something that should be practiced. It's not as simple as grabbing the rock and yelling up, "climbing now." You need to either: remove the rope grab knots/ascenders, and in that instant free up the feet of slack you generated (not necessarily a problem if you're at a good stance or clipped directly to bomber gear), OR work the knots/devices back down the rope to you as your belayer gradually pulls the slack in from above. Unless there's absolutely no alternative, I would suggest NOT free climbing the remainder of the pitch with the knots/devices as your primary connection to the rope, regardless of how neatly you've stored away the loop(s) of slack.

Okay, just to be clear? I would not untie at any point, unless something drastic was going on (I can't think what), so, what do you mean? The "why" helps, for many of us out here. That's as important as the "how to", maybe more so.

Best, Helen

Dylan B. wrote: Transitioning back to free climbing is an important skill. If you find yourself jugging a stretch of a pitch that terminates at a traverse, being able to transition back to free for the traverse can be critical. Hopefully, your leader protected the traverse thoroughly, and you have ample gear to work with to transition back to free, or else just to aid through the traverse. But if you get to the last draw before a 40-ft traverse, with widely spaced pro ahead of you, you’ll need to get back on the rock or else you’ll be taking a massive ride.

As for hauling a second, IMO that’s way more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve never tried it in a real climbing scenario, but when practicing self-rescue I find it preposterously difficult even under ideal circumstances. Learn the skill for an incapacitated second; but don’t plan to use it as a substitute for jugging.

As many of you know, my first and most cherished partner is my son, who was learning technical skills as a SAR volunteer. Hauling systems was one of them. Even with great equipment, it is very slow for one person. With great equipment and a trained team? It is still slow. 

As to traverses? Very sadly, the start of our climbing careers coincided with a fatality here in Idaho. A pendulum swing, from a traversing lead. Into a dihedral. That? Will forever be my head's up for traverses, leads, belaying my leaders, roofs, anything at all where a pendulum is a possibility.

Thanks, all, for adding to this. Much appreciated! Helen

For the reasons mentioned (what to do with the slack and how to get back on belay after the crux) and despite the far less than ideal mechanical advantage, I find the preferable option is to set up a 3:1. Takes wrapping a sling around the load stand in a friction hitch, looping the brake strand through a biner  clipped to the sling, and pulling up on the brake strand. No slack. No off belay. (Assumes using guide- mode or grigri for top belay.) easy on easy off.

As far as slow: the second is still climbing. Just with help. Not any slower than the second climbing alone.   Faster.

Of course won’t work in some situations— belayer can’t hear/ doesn’t know . . .

I wouldn’t want a second to just start jugging my climbing rope. The rope stretching over a sharp edge could cause damage to the sheath. There are plenty of easy to bail or single pitch climbs to cut your teeth on. If you can’t climb a certain grade communicate it to the person leading beforehand so they can choose a different route. A 3:1 should be all you need to get through a crux and back to climbing again. 

I am aware of how to jug a rope and it’s purposes. If there is only one rope that is either getting us up or down, you are not jugging on it, especially for a whole pitch length or if there are sharp edges. 

If I broke my fingers, think it’s time to get off the climb. Probably an appropriate time to rap. Nah sorry dude gotta get on the onsight bro! Just jug the rope as I finish of the climb! Yeah screw that 

Dylan B. wrote:

I think what Mike’s getting at is that when it comes time to transition back to free climbing, you shouldn’t just let go of the rope, grab the rock and start climbing, leaving your prussic/Purcells as the tie-in that will catch a fall first. Instead, you do need to find a way to get the  out of the system, either by tieing an alpine butterfly/fig-8 and clipping it to your hard point, or getting all the extra slack out of the system.

As to the why? I’m not entirely sure. It just seems best to me to avoid making a pair of prussics the primary attachment point in the event of a fall. I know that’s how they function when jugging, but somehow it seems like poor form for it to stay that way during free climbing.

I'm sure it's more than a style issue. But, if it came to it? Depending on the circumstances, if I had a long or really scary thing going on? I'd just switch to top rope solo, and be assured of my security, assuming the top is secure. Get it done, get in direct to something, catch my breath, then work out the next bit and be sure of it before undoing the current bit that's keeping me alive. That last is my single safety "rule", actually.

The first, obvious thing is to not let someone get you in a pickle in the first place! But, as the less skilled climber, I feel it's my responsibility to at least have some tricks up my sleeve, just in case.

Best, Helen

OLH,
Just my two cents:
To directly answer your question as it pertains to that specific scenario you describe: Use a clove hitch.

As you ascend the rope and create around enough slack:
- Use the rope slack created to tie a clove hitch to your harness with an extra biner and take up all the slack with that clove hitch
- As you continue ascending, readjust the clove hitch to take up any additional slack (while weighing one of your ascenders)
- Repeat the last step as many times as you need to until you're past said tough section
- Get to a very stable stance or go in direct to a piece
- Remove the clove hitch
- Ask partner to take up rope
- Resume free climbing

The benefit of this is that you don't have to tie multiple knots or use multiple biners. In my opinion this would be the best combination of safety/efficiency for this particular situation. Other scenarios may have/require different solutions

John Wilder wrote: The one time I had to do it, I jugged up about 10' to a big ledge, clipped into the piece of gear direct and had my leader take up the slack.

In general, it's unlikely that you're going to have to ascend any real distance between pieces- probably just a few feet- especially if your leader thinks there's a possibility of a fall and protects before and after the crux.

This is what I did as well.

If there is any doubt the follower can make it, have them clip a grigri to their harness and thread the rope.  They can use this to bump themselves up the rope and then feed the slack back when they get to a more stable position.  It's way easier for a novice to figure out than a full on ascending rig while they are freaking out under stress.

Assuming the crux is short and the belayer is close above (because she knew you might have a problem at that spot), and they have you in guide mode (for the same reason), then an assisted hoist is by far the quickest option. They simply drop a loop of rope out the back of the Reverso, you clip the loop to a locker through you belay loop. You both pull and up you go! Once over the crux, just remove the loop. You will be hanging on the reverso when you do this, so have both hands free, and you will at all times be belayed with no slack.

The whole thing will take less time that getting a single prusik on the rope. I jest not.

If you do have to prusik, always place a back up knot. Then once you can free climb, loop the rope around your shoulders but leave the last backup knot in place as your new tie in.

David Coley wrote: Assuming the crux is short and the belayer is close above (because she knew you might have a problem at that spot), and they have you in guide mode (for the same reason), then an assisted hoist is by far the quickest option. They simply drop a loop of rope out the back of the Reverso, you clip the loop to a locker through you belay loop. You both pull and up you go! Once over the crux, just remove the loop. You will be hanging on the reverso when you do this, so have both hands free, and you will at all times be belayed with no slack.

The whole thing will take less time that getting a single prusik on the rope. I jest not.

If you do have to prusik, always place a back up knot. Then once you can free climb, loop the rope around your shoulders but leave the last backup knot in place as your new tie in.

Thanks! Bet I'm not the only one who wants to try this out!

Best, Helen