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Minimum Number of Pieces for a Trad Anchor?

Original Post
Derrick W · · Golden, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 868

When you're building a trad anchor, do you really use a minimum of three pieces?  It seems excessive to me.  I feel completely comfortable climbing/hanging/belaying off of two bomber pieces.  How do you feel?

Caveats: Big wall anchors should have more pieces since the forces at play when hauling can be so large.  Small cams probably shouldn't constitute a "bomber piece."  My definition of small cam is size .3 and below, but you're free to make your own definition.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

You get to build your anchor with however many cams you want. That's what it comes down to. Are you comfortable with only two? Then that's a good number.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349

Sometimes- None at all. Just brace yourself. I'm thinking the Top of many climbs in TM and other places in the real Mountains that are not developed rockclimbing spots. A good skill to have. 

ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410
FrankPS wrote: You get to build your anchor with however many cams you want. That's what it comes down to. Are you comfortable with only two? Then that's a good number.

Adding - and is your partner comfortable with only two? I will take 2 bomber over 3 suspect pieces any day. 

Creed Archibald · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,026

I’ll belay off two text book cams assuming both are hand size or larger. Otherwise I put in 3. 

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then buildest thou thy Holy Trad Anchor of Antioch and belayest thy second, who, being naughty in My sight, shall hang-dog it.

Drederek · · Olympia, WA · Joined Mar 2004 · Points: 315

Minimum of 0 pieces, rope around a tree.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236

Not talking about natural pro, 1. This being said if you can dig your self in a little bit your ass has allot of holding power.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349

Seb knows

climber pat · · Las Cruces NM · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 301

I am comfortable with 2 or even 1 piece but very rarely use less than 3, less than once a year on average climbing for 40 years.  Usually special circumstances involve little choice in available quality crack or gear that fits.

Often 0 pieces on the summit because there is no chance of being dragged off the peak by the followers. 

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

The only time I ever go with only one piece is if it’s the only thing I have that will fit. The minute I can get another piece, I’ll slam it in.

I’m okay with two bomber pieces but I’m completely happy with three. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 148

Place 'em if you got 'em.

Done plenty of anchors where I added to them after the second brought up something before the next lead.

And handed him something from the anchor needed for next pitch too if I had it to spare.

Joel higgins · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 0

Out of my bob Gaines advanced rock climbing book chapter 5 anchors...

" A good rule of thumb is for your anchor to be no weaker than 25 kn..5260 lbs. "

So this means to me that I'm placing gear to equal up to 30 + kn. 

Mike Womack · · Orcutt, CA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 2,015

The answer is complex.  Depends on comfort level, likelihood of big falls, rock quality, comfort level with partner, gear placement, etc.  One time, I used 5 pieces because the rock sucked, my partner may fall, the cracks were flared, etc. Othertimes, I'll just use one cam or even just walk around a tree and belay from my harness.  My go-to anchor for most trad climbs have been two great pieces with a sliding X.

Ashort · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 56
Joel higgins wrote: Out of my bob Gaines advanced rock climbing book chapter 5 anchors...

" A good rule of thumb is for your anchor to be no weaker than 25 kn..5260 lbs. "

So this means to me that I'm placing gear to equal up to 30 + kn. 

What will happen to the biners in your anchor if the anchor actually sees those forces?


No point in building your anchor to equal more than the strength of a biner IMO, unless the rock is suspect or placement not ideal. 
Ryan Pfleger · · Boise, ID · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 25

A three piece trad anchor is my default. If I use more or less than there were extenuating circumstances.

Tyler Newcomb · · New York, New York | Boston · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 81
Ashort wrote:

What will happen to the biners in your anchor if the anchor actually sees those forces?


No point in building your anchor to equal more than the strength of a biner IMO, unless the rock is suspect or placement not ideal. 

I think the 25 rule is to account for cams not holding that full amount. I know of little rock around here that would hold up to that much force anyways. 

Joel higgins · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 0
Ashort wrote:

What will happen to the biners in your anchor if the anchor actually sees those forces?


No point in building your anchor to equal more than the strength of a biner IMO, unless the rock is suspect or placement not ideal. 

Ya that makes sense. Ive heard from a few people that you want to get to that number or bettet

From another 90s test petzl estimated according to this book. Trad climbing section. That anchor must absorb the highest estimated fall factor 2 which was thoerized at 9kn plus the impact to the an hour the belayer will feel 6kn due to friction factor. (Really wanted to find this test now lol. I'm sure it's on mtproject somewhere) . So 15 kn total. So maybe they just chucked 10kn as a buffer for feel good. But that's some pretty serious shit for sure.

God that would suck to feel those forces. But I mean you get three pieces in on a standard rack and the numbers add up very quickly to satisfy those "rule of thumb" numbers. 
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Unless you are counting biners zero. Ran into a nice ledge (wish I had pictures) with a couple of good cuts in the rock that allowed me to clip 3 biners directly into the rock like clipping a bolt!

Igor Chained · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 110
climber pat wrote
Often 0 pieces on the summit because there is no chance of being dragged off the peak by the followers. 

Paul Hutton · · Nephi, UT · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 740

Use whatever amount of gear you have left at the top of the pitch. Then, leave whatever amount as an anchor that you're comfortable with for the next pitch.

If it's a 5.9 pitch or easier, I may leave a two point anchor. I probably won't fall.

Just solo. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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