hammer ? stainless steel ?

I've been wanting to get a new hammer for placing bolts -- including pounding in Stainless steel wedge bolts.

Seems like the Black Diamond Yosemite hammer has not been available for a while now.

Obvious competitor is Petzl Bongo hammer.

Is the Bongo made out of Stainless steel?
. . . (French "inox").
. . . (Why doesn't the Petzl web site just say so? under "Technical"?)

Does it matter whether my hammer is Stainless or not?
. . . (I had thought that I wanted to bang on my stainless hardware only with a stainless hammer, so not to introduce impurities e.g. carbon? into external layer).

If non-Stainless were OK I could purchase a much less expensive geologist hammer.

Thanks for helping me figure this out.

Ken

kenr wrote: I've been wanting to get a new hammer for placing bolts -- including pounding in Stainless steel wedge bolts.

Seems like the Black Diamond Yosemite hammer has not been available for a while now.

Obvious competitor is Petzl Bongo hammer.

Is the Bongo made out of Stainless steel?
. . . (French "inox").
. . . (Why doesn't the Petzl web site just say so? under "Technical"?)

Does it matter whether my hammer is Stainless or not?
. . . (I had thought that I wanted to bang on my stainless hardware only with a stainless hammer, so not to introduce impurities e.g. carbon? into external layer).

If non-Stainless were OK I could purchase a much less expensive geologist hammer.

Thanks for helping me figure this out.

Ken

It doesn't matter even a little bit.  

not sure if above poster has solid info to back up his decision to write the question off... I've heard it can matter as well. Obviously I have no idea, but I've been beating the hell outta SS bolts with non-SS hammer for a while now and haven't noticed any excess corrosion, or corrosion of any kind, in bolts placed 5+ years ago. so far so good is all i can say

Not too heavy, not too light.  And comes with a leash & light biner.

https://www.backcountry.com/camp-usa-brenta-piton-hammer?CMP_SKU=CMP003M&MER=0406&skid=CMP003M-ONECOL-ONESIZ&mr:trackingCode=A9FE5A12-F31F-E511-80F1-005056944E17&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plaonline&CMP_ID=PLA_GOc001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&k_clickid=40852e8e-283c-49af-b906-58f49e6fee14&rmatt=tsid:1042790|cid:213417517|agid:13362830437|tid:aud-483074737321:pla-467067062079|crid:92885919877|nw:g|rnd:1869326204712249152|dvc:c|adp:1o1|mt:|loc:9059672&gclid=Cj0KCQjwquTbBRCSARIsADzW88zrwpX_NSlh-Jb0bYDfWp6a0qTEYj2J1pceU1_nd-8g4FmEEEIka5caAmVsEALw_wcB

http://www.omegapac.com/mobile/itemdetail.php?id=19&secid=

$100 with funkness.  Stainless.  I like mine, and I purchased for the same reason

If it's any help, I have a brand new BD Yosemite hammer for sale for $87 + $7 shipping.

In my personal experience, the BD Yosemite hammer is presently the best on the market, with the only better hammers being the A5 and D5 hammers.

I note that the Camp Brenta hammer is chromoly steel, not stainless.

. . Not as corrosion-resistant in itself as Stainless, but I guess(?) not likely to introduce carbon impurities into the surface layer of the nut or bolt or hanger.

. . Cromoly steel is harder, so perhaps the Camp Brenta hammer will last longer?

Omega Pacific wall hammer is substantially heavier than the BD Yosemite or the Petzl Bongo or Camp Brenta hammers.

. . Since I've been doing lots of work on hard rock, I guess heavier should be a benefit for the "bashing on the rock" phase - to remove surface weaknesses and smooth out irregularities near my planned hole for the hanger to rest stably.

. . Since I use a hammer mainly to do hardware installation on rappel (rather than for climbing up big walls), not much downside to heavier.

Ken

Brian Prince wrote: I've been beating the hell outta SS bolts with non-SS hammer for a while now and haven't noticed any excess corrosion, or corrosion of any kind, in bolts placed 5+ years ago.

Thanks for sharing that real-world experience.

I would think the main impact of the hammer on a wedge-bolt-and-nut surface would be on tne outside protruding end of the bolt stud.
Hopefully infrequent on the nut -- since much impact on the nut would often have the collateral damage of wrecking the threads, resulting in unsuccessful installation of that wedge bolt.

So I'd guess the place to look for carbon-impurity corrosion on a Stainless bolt stud would be on the end, but a non-high-corrosion environment, might be a long time (?) before that penetrated far enough to significantly weaken the overall installation. Only guessing.

Ken

i've seen tiny bits of corrosion where the bolt has been hammered in though these bolts are in a high corrosion environment and must be atleast 8 years old if not older, as far as i can tell it's gone no further than where it was hit with a hammer.

that guy named seb wrote: i've seen tiny bits of corrosion where the bolt has been hammered in though these bolts are in a high corrosion environment and must be atleast 8 years old if not older, as far as i can tell it's gone no further than where it was hit with a hammer.

This has been my experience as well (Southeastern U.S.), except almost overnight in some cases. However, I've never noticed it progressing any further. 

I’ll post this on the other thread too but surface damage due to hammering (stainless or otherwise ) can be fixed relatively easily in situ with a scotch dish scrubbing pad and some Bar Keepers Friend (found in most grocery stores). Bar Keepers is powdered oxalic acid scrubbing powder. It will re passivate the stainless surface. I’ve used it numerous times to clean up stainless hangers that had mild contact corrosion from PS five piece bolts. Just carry the sponge and a little pre mixed power (water paste) with you. Scrub and rinse with some water you spit on it. Done.

Acero Inoxidable (“Inox” for short) is the Spanish/Italian word for Stainless Steel. As in, it won’t oxidize or rust

Seems like this would matter for placing glue ins like the wave bolt since you hammer on the hanger.   Seems less so for the thread end of a wedge bolt but dunno......

dnoB ekiM wrote: http://www.omegapac.com/mobile/itemdetail.php?id=19&secid=

$100 with funkness.  Stainless.  I like mine, and I purchased for the same reason

I also use the omega hammer, got it for the same reason as well, and it works great ime.

On the question of corrosion caused by destroying the passivated layer and contaminating the material with impurities from a metal hammer the answer is yes, it causes problems in areas that experience corrosion, and certainly if installing glue-in fixings. This is standard practice for climbers using inference style glue-ins and where corrosion is a concern, I can certainly find plenty of bolts that have corroded as a result of not doing so.

Bear in mind that corrosion (however minor it may be at the time) can also raise concerns amongst the broader (less technically informed) climbing community (a side product of this issue) so it's no big deal to carry a cover / second hammer and not create the problem in the first place.

It's all relative of course and if you're placing wedge bolts inland somewhere in the US where corrosion is not of concern then all good.
 

I’ve owned every hammer out there (except for the old Duecey hammer anyone have one to part with?) and the dammer is hands down the best for drilling bolt holes.

Www.dammerr.com

Seems like there is a designated impact area on stainless wedge bolts and Hilti wedge bolts. Essentially the shaft of the bolt extends past where the threads end so you can hammer them in without hitting and damaging the threads.  If the hammer did cause corrosion, it would be on this impact area that is not structurally significant.

Stainless hammer heads may be softer than non stainless . . . Just like stainless hardware.  My omega hammer head mushroomed and got sharp edges that would shred fingers during sloppy swings until finally had to grind off the sharp mushroom edges around the head. It’s a good hammer though.

I understand wanting to raise the bar on hardware but when did this galvanic corrosion thing come on the scene? And in the scheme of things how big a problem is it.  We are literally to the point where we are discussing using a certain type of hammer for installation.  In my opinion, the hammer used for installation should be of no concern if the bolt is of a quality to be used for climbing.  I understand taking this into consideration when buying a hammer. But I don’t want FAs to get ridiculed because they installed their bolts with a rusty claw hammer. 

Jonathan Awerbuch wrote: ... I can't imagine how hitting a stainless bolt with a carbon steel hammer could have any effect more than cosmetic/appearance.

Two things, hitting it physically disturbs the chromium oxide layer of the SS.  Two, a small amount (tiny flakes) of carbon steel can flake off the hammer and transfer to the SS bolt.  This then rusts and can disturb the re-forming of the protective chromium oxide layer.  

There are a few pictures of it and a lot of discussion (from folks like Jim Titt) of this exact subject in the thread linked below.  As you can see by that thread and this one there are different opinions on how much, if at all, of a problem this really is.

LINK

Thanks Mike. Deleted my post since it didn't add anything.

bus driver wrote: Seems like there is a designated impact area on stainless wedge bolts and Hilti wedge bolts. Essentially the shaft of the bolt extends past where the threads end so you can hammer them in without hitting and damaging the threads.  If the hammer did cause corrosion, it would be on this impact area that is not structurally significant.

Stainless hammer heads may be softer than non stainless . . . Just like stainless hardware.  My omega hammer head mushroomed and got sharp edges that would shred fingers during sloppy swings until finally had to grind off the sharp mushroom edges around the head. It’s a good hammer though.

I understand wanting to raise the bar on hardware but when did this galvanic corrosion thing come on the scene? And in the scheme of things how big a problem is it.  We are literally to the point where we are discussing using a certain type of hammer for installation.  In my opinion, the hammer used for installation should be of no concern if the bolt is of a quality to be used for climbing.  I understand taking this into consideration when buying a hammer. But I don’t want FAs to get ridiculed because they installed their bolts with a rusty claw hammer. 

On wedge bolts my opinion is the potential for serious corrosion on the striking end of the bolt is minimal, that the pitting is going to extend that far in in a reasonable time-frame means there´s other things to worry about.

Glue-ins it´s conceivable that the iron residues could start pitting corrosion that would weaken the bolt, since it is easy to avoid there is no reason not to (it isn´t galvanic corrosion that is the problem but iron on the surface giving an unprotected path into the inside of the material). As manufacturers WE don´t like to see rust marks on our bolts put there by someone else, it makes our products look like shit even though we took considerable care (and expense) to make sure they don´t get rust marks.

As stated above, I now use the Camp Brenta hammer.  I like it better than others I have used for several reasons.  Above, kenr is correct,  "Camp Brenta hammer is chromoly steel"  But I do not see the damage to bolts (slight as that may be) that I did with other hammers.  It holds up well when whacking choss away and is heavy enough to do that job w/o being too heavy for tapping in bolts.  If you are tapping in a SS wedge head (having drilled a proper hole), back the nut out flush to the stud head.  This mitigates any damage to the stud itself by equalizing the tap impact across the nut and stud...if in fact that is an issue.  It may be an issue in marine environments, but I do not see it in desert or alpine settings.  Though I am opened to being schooled on this matter.