First time Climbing in New York: Gunks and Dacks Uber Classic and Testpiece Reccomendations

Headed to New York for a 10 day climbing trip on Saturday.  The plan is to climb the Gunks for a few days, climb in the Adirondacks for a few days then return to the Gunks for a few days before flying out.  Heat, precip, bugs, etc. wont bother us.  

I'd like to get the best bang for my buck without much lost time as it'll probably be some time before I return.  Grade wise I'm real open:  Trad 5.fun to 12b, sport up to 12d.  I much prefer Trad (the longer the better) but will clip some bolts on anything that's a must do.  

Thanks a bunch for the recommendations.

Gunks in the lower grades try to get on Birdland, Modern Times, Bonnie's Roof Direct, Directissima to High E, MF. There are a ton of classics in the 5.10 range, but I will leave those for others to suggest :)

CCC @ the Gunks for Classic 5.8
Daks,. 5.8 Hesitation and Overture @ washbowl cliff.  Gamesmanship  5.8 and fastest Gun  5.10 @ Poco
If you rent a canoe. Rogers Rock. 5.8 Screaming meanie with Matrix finish or the Matrix.

Tread lightly at the Gunks your first time (in terms of grades). The rock is unique (i.e., a bit weird), very steep, and the grades are definitely "old school." Same with the Daks. Start off well below your comfort level, and then have a blast as you work your way up!

Hobo Greg speaks the truth on Roger's Rock...you can canoe in from the Roger's Rock state campground (day use fee) using the boat launch.  If you know how to paddle a canoe well it's about 15-20 min; if you don't....maybe 5-10 min longer. You'll want shoes you don't mind getting soaked for the take-out below the cliff. Tie up the canoe.  Also...whether you're a good paddler or not, BEWARE P.M. THUNDERSTORMS, the waves (especially the reaction waves that come back at you from the cliff-shore) can make a calm lake paddle difficult for even class 3-4 whitewater boaters.

You'll want 2 ropes, 2 x 60m is fine; even 1 x60m plus 1 x 50m will do for getting down.

Adk classics: cracks on the Spider's Web; the route Quadraphenia on Hurricane Crag; lots of stuff at Poko-moonshine- just look for the 3-4 stars, or 4-5 stars in the guidebook (Adirondack Rock by Lawyer & Hass); some good ones on Pitchoff;  if you like to walk, California Flake in Avalanche Pass (2 hrs easy/moderate hike, about 4-5 miles) is nice, as is Chalk Up Matilda on the other side of the lake. Not sure Wallface is worth the walk in if you're there for only a few days. Not sure of your lodging plans, but Adirondack Rock and River [B&B] is run by a climber-family (Ed Palen) who will share all kinds of Beta; nice place to stay and you can climb all day on their breakfasts. The Mountaineer in Keene Valley is the local climbing shop (others in Lake Placid...the BIG city !).

For Gunks 5.10s get on anything on the Mac Wall or Shitface, Transcontinental Nailway, and Birdcage which are all very close to each other in the nears.  All have consistent climbing on beautiful rock.

As you likely already know, neither area is exactly a hot spot for sport, if fact there is zero in the Gunks, and only a scattering of fully bolted climbing in the ADK. Rather than recommending specific climbs, I'll just say that the recommendations in the guidebooks to both areas (Williams' books for the Gunks) are right on, so you won't go wrong sticking with those. The ADK is obviously a MUCH more extensive area than the Gunks, and many of the crags have significant approaches, so for a brief visit it is probably best to stick to the easily-accessible, well-known areas such as Poko and Chapel Pond--they are popular for a good reason.

You wrote that "heat, precip, bugs, etc" won't bother you. Hopefully so, but have you climbed in the east during the summer before?  Right now, we have been enduring an extend hot, humid and wet period here in the northeast, and it looks to be continuing into next week. The humidity adds a whole different dimension, that makes a humid 85 degree day much more unpleasant than similar temps in Colorado, and there is little escape from it in the shade. In the right (wrong) conditions condensation on the rock adds yet another factor in the equation. Also while there are many roofs in the Gunks, there are very few climbs in either area that will remain dry even in fairly light rain, let alone in the downpours we have been experiencing recently. At least the bugs have passed their peak!!!

Still, if the weather does work out for you, as I hope it does,  you will have the chance to experience some truly wonderful climbs in very pleasant surroundings.

Here's my list of the Best of the Best for a 5.11-5.12 trad climber

Gunks 

5.6 Shockleys, Disney Land
5.7 CCK, Yellow Ridge
5.8 Modern Times, Something on the Arrow Wall
5.9 Proctor-Silex into Traverse of the Clods
5.10 Fat City, Stirrup Trouble, Erect Direction
5.11 Enduro Man (p1 Doubleissima to bypass 5.11R), Kligfields, No Man's Land, Graveyard Shift, Carbs and Caffeine
5.12 Supper's Ready, The Sting, Bone Hard (R), Vanishing Point (R), Crack n' Up (R)

Many people will recommend High Exposure & Directissima but if you do Enduro Man you will be climbing harder versions of the same terrain

Purchase the Gunks App and save time navigating (biased plug).

If making the trek to Millbrook be prepared for wild, committing routes, loose rock down low and frequently sparse gear

5.10 Lessons in History
5.11 Square Meal

Daks 

The Web
5.10 On the Loose
5.11 It's Only Entertainment, Drop Fly or Die
5.12 White Knight

Moss Cliff
5.9 Touch of Class (4 pitches)
5.11 Creation of the World (4 pitches + Wide gear)

Poke-O
5.9 Bloody Mary (2 pitches)
5.10 Fastest Gun (4 pitches)
5.11 Shark Week, The Gathering (Both 6 pitches)

If you make it to the High Peaks: Pete's Farewell and The El (on Pitchoff); if in Chapel Pond Pass: Tillman's Arete, Chapel Pond Slab, Bozeman Bullet (about a 15 minute drive from the pond), Prelude/Partition/Overture (there's a combo of two of these routes that's supposed to be mega classic), Beer Walls host a ton of awesome routes w/ easy access, Spider's Web is rad

Shelving Rock has enough solid sport to spend a day or two with awesome views and a 10 minute walk to swim

Crane is a hotbed for sport and new routes

Chat with folks at the Mountaineer for recommendations!

You've gotten great Beta!  Not sure if the falcon closures still affect Poko and Moss cliff but they usually are taken off by Aug 1.  (a simple phone call to the Mountaineer in Keene Vally will answer that.)

GunksApps recommendations for Poko are spot on. I might add Gamesmanship 5.8 (at least P1) and The Sting (5.9) next to it.

 As for his Gunks recommendations, I would say specifically do Arrow (5.7 / 5.8) [remembering the FA went without the bolts, although the 5.8 top move was not done, Willie stepped left to the top. ] and Bonnie's Roof (5.9)..(at least P1, although P2 [5.7 ? ] is great too!)  There are just so many world-class climbs at the Gunks you could stay there all year and not do them all.  

Re temps: 85F with high humidity and no breeze is roughly equivalent to 95-100F "out west". BUT even that doesn't "explain" it.     In the sun, in the summer, Gunks rock (esp. the darker stuff) can get too hot to touch...just like Vegas, The Trapps faces due southeast.

ADK:
+1 for Pete’s Farewell and Chapel Pond slab; both are moderate/easy by your standards but great fun.  Pete’s Farewell has a great view of Cascade Lake, and you can picnic and swim there after climbing.

Regular Route at the slab is good fun, prob more PG than PG13.  

Beer Walls in ADK also has a great selection of routes, albeit most/all single pitch.

If you’re into hiking too check out Wallface - I haven’t been there but have been scoping for a while.  ADK hiking is phenomenal and you can get best of both worlds heading into Wallface from Heart Lake.

-Hamish

Agree with Pete's Farewell, but IMO the Empress is "the" slab climb on Chapel Pond Slab.  If you don't like the 5.5 X, there's an alternate 25-30 ft left that climbs up to a corner with pro before you launch onto the slab, 5.5-5.6 PG-13/R.

I've always gone into Wallface from ADK-Lodge/Heart Lake, but heard it's about an mile / mile-and-a-half shorter from the south at Tahowes (? spelling).  That being said, I would recommend the Avalanche Lake area as a "back-country" climb:  
1) shorter approach (about 5 vs 7 miles),
 2) MUCH shorter bush-crashes to the climbs, and
3) less likely to become totally lost (1st time I went into Wallface we were 1/4 mile "off" from the climb, because no one told me that "Summit Rock" is NOT at the height-of-land of the pass, but 1/4 mi. (or so) SOUTH of the height of land!) and, well,...
4) the climbs are a bit less committing. (1 to 3-4 pitches, vs 5-7).

Many good suggestions here but I can't resist throwing in my own Gunks opinions.

For 5.10 there are a zillion great options. It is the premier grade at the Gunks. Any 5.10 with stars in the WIlliams guidebook is going to be very good. Some of the no-star tens are quite good. Here is my own list of favorites, the best of the best, leaving off MANY that I like a lot:

Trappps:

Retribution
Nosedive
Stirrup Trouble
Coexistence
Graveyard Shift
Tough Shift
Cheap Thrills
Never Never Land
Nurse's Aid (both pitches)
Erect Direction
Amber Waves of Pain
Face to Face
Ridicullissima
Directississima/Doubleissima
The Winter Direct (Pitch one of Winter with P2 of the Spring directly above, in one pitch)
The Spring with P2 of the Winter above (in one pitch)
Simple Suff
Falled on Account of Strain
Frustration Syndrome
10,000 Restless Virgins

Nears:

Criss Cross Direct (all in one pitch)
Disney Point
Fat City Direct
Birdcage
Elder Cleavage Direct

Lots of great leadable tens at Lost City but ask around for those.

I can't help you with 5.12 and my experience with 5.11 is much less than my experience with 5.10, although I have at least attempted many of the elevens that get led with any regularity. Gunks Apps is spot-on with his list of the most classic elevens, though I would add The Yellow Wall if you are up to it and Harvest Moon in the Nears.

Robert Hall wrote: Agree with Pete's Farewell, but IMO the Empress is "the" slab climb on Chapel Pond Slab.  If you don't like the 5.5 X, there's an alternate 25-30 ft left that climbs up to a corner with pro before you launch onto the slab, 5.5-5.6 PG-13/R.

I've always gone into Wallface from ADK-Lodge/Heart Lake, but heard it's about an mile / mile-and-a-half shorter from the south at Tahowes (? spelling).  That being said, I would recommend the Avalanche Lake area as a "back-country" climb:  
1) shorter approach (about 5 vs 7 miles),
 2) MUCH shorter bush-crashes to the climbs, and
3) less likely to become totally lost (1st time I went into Wallface we were 1/4 mile "off" from the climb, because no one told me that "Summit Rock" is NOT at the height-of-land of the pass, but 1/4 mi. (or so) SOUTH of the height of land!) and, well,...
4) the climbs are a bit less committing. (1 to 3-4 pitches, vs 5-7).

Good to know, I’ve been wanting to get on Empress but haven’t yet.  Also haven’t been to Wallface yet - just scoped the approach from Heart side that could include popping into the ADK center and lodge.  I’m dying to get on The Diagonal, it looks stellar.

Robert Hall wrote: As for his Gunks recommendations, I would say specifically do Arrow (5.7 / 5.8) [remembering the FA went without the bolts, although the 5.8 top move was not done, Willie stepped left to the top. ] 

If you do end up on Arrow, I'd recommend doing the second (Money) pitches of all the climbs on this wall. Rap back down to the GT ledge and knock out the second pitches of Limelight, Annie- Oh!, and Three Doves...they are super fun!

Robert Hall wrote: I would say specifically do Arrow (5.7 / 5.8) [remembering the FA went without the bolts, although the 5.8 top move was not done, Willie stepped left to the top. ] 

What is the source of this factoid? I thought Willie Crowther rap-bolted and cleaned it before doing the route. But I am eager to hear the rest of the story. 

Sean,...good idea about the other 2nd pitches of the Grand Traverse Ledge,

SethG, Re' Arrow:  I'd always been told (and I've climbed at the Gunks since 1966, with people who were active in the late 1950's and early 1960's) that Willie climbed the climb on the piton in the horizontal below the white face, and at the top stepped left to an easier (5.4??) finish ("avoiding" the hard, "reachy" move).  I was told he then decided most all climbers of the era would not be able to lead the climb that way and THEN cleaned and placed the bolts. (Remember, in the early 1960's if you could lead, even 'protectable' 5.7 you were probably in the top 5 to 10% of the climber's in the country.  For example, the 1964 Gran guidebook states "In 1956 this [Cakewalk, 5.7] was considered one of the hardest climbs in the area." )

That's what I had always been told...the few times I spoke with Willie I never actually brought up the subject; but given the "runout" FA's he did in NH (Sliding Board 5.7 in 1959 or '60, Wedge 5.7 in 1959 or '60, D'Arcy Crowther 5.7, in 1956 (although D'Arcy led most),  D'Arcy Crowther on Cannon 5.?? circa late 1950's; which went up in the area of a still-uncompleted Brad White 5.8 route) I see no reason why he would have felt the need to rap-bolt the route.  In fact, the CONCEPT of rap bolting didn't exist in the 1950-60's; so if he actually did it that way, I'm not sure what would have been the "bigger "contribution""...the route or the concept of rap bolting it before the ascent.

Far as I know, Willie is still alive....maybe we could ask.

I'd never heard that story either (about the FA of Arrow) so never asked Willie about it. However Robert's account makes a lot of sense and Willie was very creative and willing to bend the rules--he reportedly initially protected the Sliding Board crux with long  slings from pitons in the Standard Route corner. Either way Arrow is a great route--one of my favorites in the Gunks.

+1 for the GunksApps - you’ll save yourself time wandering and get lots of good beta, not to mention supporting a local climber. You’ll find it’s worth it for ID-ing routes and variations, not to mention th GPS function.

Yup....Remember, the original belay for Sliding Board was on the ledge directly below the start of the arch (even I climbed it before the now-old double bolt anchor was put in!) I'm not sure, however, that it wouldn't have been better for Willie, if he had fallen at the "pre-bolted" crux, to have fallen 30-50 ft down the low-angle friction below what is now the double bolt anchor, rather than "flying" back over and into the arch !  

Back to more info on Arrow.  The Watermans relate that Willie "rehearsed...the splendid top move on Arrow...on top rope" (pg 180, Yankee Rock and Ice 1st ed.)  They would have undoubtedly interviewed Willie (this is the ONLY place I've ever heard the specifics of just the top move) and the comment appears in a discussion on ethical and stylistic standards at the Gunks.  I would think if the bolts had been placed before the climb was led this fact certainly would have been brought forth in the book.  

Perhaps adding to uncertainty is the Wikipedia entry for Willie where it states that he put the bolts in "while on rappel."  Note, however, no one seems to doubt this fact and the statement by itself does not address whether they were put in before or after the FA.    

I'm sorry for contributing to the thread drift on this subject... Arrow's history has nothing to do with the original post.

But the story is interesting. I know I read somewhere that the route was rap-bolted. I think Dick Williams in his history states that Crowther also cleaned it. I always presumed this was in preparation for the lead and the comment in Yankee Rock and Ice about top-rope rehearsal lends credence to the notion that all of it-- the cleaning, bolting, and rehearsal-- happened before the first lead of the climb as we know it today.

I don't doubt your story about the first pre-bolt lead, Robert, but maybe this early lead, with the abortive, non-direct finish, isn't what people generally think of as the first lead of Arrow.

Edited to add: Here is what Dick Williams has to say. “Another superb route was Arrow, by MIT undergraduate Willie Crowther, who wire-brushed the glistening white face clean of lichen and bolted it on rappel before leading it.”