Why are Maryland and Delaware in "Southern States" and why is Arkansas considered "Midwest"?

Is there a specific reason? can't figure this out. Arkansas is almost exclusively that familiar southern sandstone that can be found all around the southeast. The Midwest thread can keep Texas, but I feel like Arkansas should be included in the "Southern States" forum.

Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line, and Delaware is adjacent to MD though technically above the line, but I agree that just about no one thinks of them as Southern states.

Maryland is south of the Mason Dixon Line. I guess Delaware just gets lumped in with Maryland. As for Arkansas I couldn't say.  Not quite Midwest and not quite southeastern. 

Per the US Census divisions, Arkansas is South, as are MD and DE. www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/ma…

Because I said so.. no wait that’s not..

If you talk to people from Massachusetts they tell you you’re a southerner. If you’re in North Carolina they tell you you’re a Yankee. We need a Mid Atlantic section!

Just reviewing the Mason-Dixon line, it seems there's not a completely clear consensus. the actual line is just the border of Maryland and Pennsylvania, and the extension seems to be inconsistent among the sources I'm seeing. some are saying Delaware is included in the south, some aren't. some are including Missouri in the south, some not at all. One doesn't include Maryland or Delaware in the south.  I don't know enough about the civil war, but anyway: maybe we should be taking more climbing related things into consideration when classifying areas. How's the climbing in Maryland? does it compare more to the north or the south?

 But if you go that route, then would you say North Carolina is more like the northern states, and West Virginia is more like the southern states? I haven't spent enough time in those areas to really give much input.

+1 for midatlantic section. Maybe it would add too much confusion though

Originally, the Mason Dixon line is the line between Maryland and Pennsylvania, and the line between Maryland and Delaware. So while Maryland is south (and west) of the Mason Dixon line, Delaware is east of the Mason Dixon line (not really north or south). Source.

However, during the first half of the 19th century, people began to refer to the Mason-Dixon line as the border between slave states and free states. While this is technically incorrect, as Delaware was above" the Mason-Dixon line, it's clear they meant to include Delaware as being below the Mason-Dixon line because Delaware was a slave state. A more accurate term might have been the Missouri Compromise line. "The south" during this time referred to slave states, so there's some historical precedent for referring to both Delaware and Maryland as part of the south.

Having been to all the states in question and a good number of states in the south, I tend to agree that Delaware and Maryland are more urbanized and tend to be more like the Mid-Atlantic states (Pennsylvania/New Jersey/New York) culturally. Rock-wise, there's not much rock to speak of in Delaware, and Maryland is pretty varied, so it would be difficult group either with an area that has similar rock. I'll add that my original home state, Pennsylvania, has a lot of sandstone which is more similar to Southern sandstone than to the quartz conglomerate of the Gunks, the granite of the Dacks/Cannon/Whitehorse, or the schist of Rumney. If we're grouping by rock type, things would get pretty weird.

But who cares? They're just arbitrary divisions.

David Kerkeslager wrote: Originally, the Mason Dixon line is the line between Maryland and Pennsylvania, and the line between Maryland and Delaware. So while Maryland is south (and west) of the Mason Dixon line, Delaware is east of the Mason Dixon line (not really north or south). Source.

However, during the first half of the 19th century, people began to refer to the Mason-Dixon line as the border between slave states and free states. While this is technically incorrect, as Delaware was above" the Mason-Dixon line, it's clear they meant to include Delaware as being below the Mason-Dixon line because Delaware was a slave state. A more accurate term might have been the Missouri Compromise line. "The south" during this time referred to slave states, so there's some historical precedent for referring to both Delaware and Maryland as part of the south.

Having been to all the states in question and a good number of states in the south, I tend to agree that Delaware and Maryland are more urbanized and tend to be more like the Mid-Atlantic states (Pennsylvania/New Jersey/New York) culturally. Rock-wise, there's not much rock to speak of in Delaware, and Maryland is pretty varied, so it would be difficult group either with an area that has similar rock. I'll add that my original home state, Pennsylvania, has a lot of sandstone which is more similar to Southern sandstone than to the quartz conglomerate of the Gunks, the granite of the Dacks/Cannon/Whitehorse, or the schist of Rumney. If we're grouping by rock type, things would get pretty weird.

But who cares? They're just arbitrary divisions.

Thanks! it is arbitrary, yes. I'm not really interested in trying to section off climbing zones for any other purpose than for than the forums to make more sense on here. otherwise, I agree, who cares. 

To Jake: Yeah, I'm beginning to see some value in having a Mid-Atlantic section; the way you have described it makes sense to me.

Jake Jones wrote:

IMO, Mid-atlantic would be PA, MD, DE, VA, WVA.  Anything north of that is Northeastern- NJ, NY, MA, NH, CT, RI, VT, ME.  Anything south/southwest including NC, SC, GA, TN, AL and AK would be "southern states".  If one were so inclined to redraw the arbitrary divisions of what is currently there.

WV.....just saying why do people go to some three letter bullshit when abbreviating West Virginia. Every other abbreviation you used was the correct two letter abbreviation but when you got to West Virginia you fell in the rabbit hole. I'll forgive you, even the idiotic editors of newspapers here use WVA. 

There would probably be a bit more forum traffic from that region if there was a Mid-Atlantic section. Makes it a bit rough to discuss local things when it's going to get lost amongst discussions irrelevant to our local area. 

Jake Jones wrote:

IMO, Mid-atlantic would be PA, MD, DE, VA, WVA.  Anything north of that is Northeastern- NJ, NY, MA, NH, CT, RI, VT, ME.  Anything south/southwest including NC, SC, GA, TN, AL and AK would be "southern states".  If one were so inclined to redraw the arbitrary divisions of what is currently there.

Probably doesn’t make much sense to put AK in “Southern States” because it’s so far North; it might be better to replace it with AR.

Semantics and perspective young fella. Are you a hillbilly hick or are ya a city slicker slurbanite? One man's southern is another man's northener. 

Some observations:
1. Delaware and MD weren't _anywhere_ until a few months ago, so South is a step up.
2. There are more posts in this thread than outdoor lines in DE.

Josh Gates wrote: 
2. There are more posts in this thread than outdoor lines in DE.

after reading this i immediately pictured the famous DE scene from wayne's world...

curt86iroc wrote:

after reading this i immediately pictured the famous DE scene from wayne's world...

That's every day of my life

But when was the last time anyone from Georgia, Tennessee, or the Carolinas regularly climbed in WVa, Virginia, or Pennsylvania? Or vice versa?

The Mid-Atlantic should have its own section. 

Kentucky is one state away from Canada.  How on earth is that a southern state ?

Jonathan Lambert wrote: There would probably be a bit more forum traffic from that region if there was a Mid-Atlantic section. Makes it a bit rough to discuss local things when it's going to get lost amongst discussions irrelevant to our local area. 

^^This^^

Maryland and Delaware are in the Southern Region because it was divided by someone who probably doesn't live in them.

Jonathan Lambert wrote: But when was the last time anyone from Georgia, Tennessee, or the Carolinas regularly climbed in WVa, Virginia, or Pennsylvania? Or vice versa?

The Mid-Atlantic should have its own section. 

I travel from NC to WV almost weekly.  The New River Gorge has become the local crag for most of my friends.