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Half/Twin Rope Length - 60 vs 70 meters?

Original Post
Kyle Tarry · · Portland, OR · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 448

For the half (or twin) rope users here, have you ever seen a situation where you need 70m of length on your ropes?

I have a pair of 70m halves (Beal Cobra) and I really like them, but I am starting to wonder if I really need the extra 10m of length (and weight) over a 60m line, and considering chopping 10m off the end of my ropes.  I can definitely think of situations where the extra length let me skip a rap station, but I don't think any of those scenarios were a necessity.

I use the ropes mostly for alpine and ice climbing, so longer approaches where weight is potentially an issue, and sometimes for party-of-3 multipitch.  I generally use a single rope for cragging.

(Note this topic has been discussed before but it's been quite a while, wondering if folks have seen anything different recently)

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/107589183/half-rope-questions?page=2
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/107628115/how-long-are-your-halfdouble-ropes

Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,550

Ive had 60m ropes for a while, the extra 10m would very rarely come in useful.
More spaghetti mess, more management, more weight and you also need to bring protection for those extra 10m.
The pro, heading to the backcountry with a single half 70m, folding it over for 35m pitches if you need it.  or if you have a tendency of damaging your ropes, you have some space to cut the ends.

But this all depends on your playground.

Kip Kasper · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 200

Extra length can be nice when bailing on big alpine routes where you’re rapping thousands of feet and making your own threads. As long as the terrain allows you to max out the length it’s great, but in general I use 60s because it’s less to deal with, and more than adequate.

A buddy had a set of 80m twins that he got because they were the same price as 60s. Pain in the ass, but using one folded over was perfect for basically everything in Hyalite. 

Paul Morrison · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 55

A couple of years ago I bought a pair of Mammut Genesis ropes, 8.5mm x 70m. Ever since, I've been wondering why. Who the hell wants to lead 70m pitches, trailing the extra rope, and carrying the extra gear? Also, the pair weighs 14.5 pounds, compared to the 8.0mm x 60m Mammut Phoenix ropes, at 11.1 pounds. I can't think of any place where you'd need two 70m ropes to get down, either--but I can think of reasons why you might get frustrated, or worse, rappelling on them instead of shorter ropes. I suppose if you were climbing a long ice route where no one had already built rap anchors, they might save you a little bit of time and cord. How often are you likely to do that?

Kip Kasper · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 200
Paul Morrison wrote:I suppose if you were climbing a long ice route where no one had already built rap anchors, they might save you a little bit of time and cord. How often are you likely to do that?

In Alaska once a year, and naked threads. 


Otherwise yeah, stick with 60s
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

There’s a handful of routes that would take way less time to rap off of if I had 70M doubles. On the other hand carrying 10 extra meters on top of screws, cams, tools etc makes me ask my partner if we can go out as a party of three. This way all I gotta carry is my rack.

Kyle Tarry · · Portland, OR · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 448
Bill Kirby wrote: There’s a handful of routes that would take way less time to rap off of if I had 70M doubles.

Bill, this is sorta the feedback I was looking for.  Got some examples of these routes?  Trying to decide if it's worth keeping 70's for a few specific cases...

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

 Multiplication Gully is one we do a lot. It’s two raps to the ground with 60s but only one with 70s. You can lead the whole thing with 70s. You can get down from Chouinard’s and Chouinard’s Right with 70s otherwise you have to walk off.  I did Parasol Gully last year and could’ve made it down in one rappel with 70s.

70M doubles are good for the way up Standard route in NH. Most people stop at the cave. You can butt in line but using 70s doubles or a single but doing a rope stretching pitch starting below another parties and setting up a screw belay above the cave.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Kyle Tarry wrote: For the half (or twin) rope users here, have you ever seen a situation where you need 70m of length on your ropes?

Never.

Full disclosure:  I was also our group's curmudgeon about purchasing single 70m ropes as well.  But there is a well-traveled rap in the local mountains that is sweet with a 70m rope; same thing for an easy long route in my state where a 70m rope can speed up the climb.

So I now own a single 70m rope though it typically only comes out when it is "needed".  And even then I curse when packing it and every time after a lead on multi-pitch when I have to pull up that extra 30 feet of rope.

As others have said, I think two 70s could also have a niche depending on your regular climb diet.  But it seems even less likely to be "needed" - at least for the places I climb.
Derek DeBruin · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,094

I can't recall needing to rappel a full 70m. However, I do sometimes using a single half rope folded up for 35m pitches and rappels. 

M P · · Somewhere in the desert · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 356

I have a pair of 70m 7.7mm rated for half and twin. Most of the time, I don't end up needing the full length of the ropes (on the way up). Usually I get to the top of a pitch and have only used 60-70% of the length. But! For pretty much every 3-pitch climb in the Trapps (Gunks), I get to rap all the way down in one go. So there's that. But I've still been eyeing some lightweight 60m singles for days when I don't want to deal with the rope management.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking of it, just this last weekend I was out with someone who's brand new to trad leading, and was thus taking a lot longer to get placements in on the 2nd and 3rd pitches. It was getting late, but he was committed to finishing it. I ended up cleaning the last pitch with a headlamp, and we threw the ropes down into absolute darkness. I knew it was fine because I've rapped that route on 70m ropes, but with 60m it would have been complicated. We would have had to find a rap station with a headlamp—there were a few traverses in the route, so it wouldn't have been straightforward.

But like someone else said, it all depends on how you're planning on using these ropes.

Nick Sweeney · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 987

Chop the rope!

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

one nice thing about 70m skinny lines is that you can just take 1 and double it in half on a lot of routes.  it gives you a bit more for pitching out, simuling, and if you need to rap.  that is a good question about the double 70's versus 60's.  usually i bring the 60's.

M P · · Somewhere in the desert · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 356
slim wrote: one nice thing about 70m skinny lines is that you can just take 1 and double it in half on a lot of routes.  it gives you a bit more for pitching out, simuling, and if you need to rap.  that is a good question about the double 70's versus 60's.  usually i bring the 60's.

To do that, would the leader tie in on a bight, and the belayer tie into both ends?

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Laralyn Mowers wrote: Now that I'm thinking of it, just this last weekend I was ...

There is of course an exception to every rule.  Still, the OP's original question was whether there was a "need".   As a lover of headlamps, I would categorize your example as not a "need".  

Even if we argue and I lose (i.e., it was a "need"), there is the question of whether that "need" offsets the additional rope management (etc.) over all the times one didn't need the extra 20 meters (10x2) in the middle of things.

Last, if money is no consideration, all this falls by the side since each day one merely brings precisely the rope system one needs.  I don't think this fits most of us.
M P · · Somewhere in the desert · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 356
Bill Lawry wrote:

There is of course an exception to every rule.  Still, the OP's original question was whether there was a "need".   As a lover of headlamps, I would categorize your example as not a "need".  

Even if we argue and I lose (i.e., it was a "need"), there is the question of whether that "need" offsets the additional rope management (etc.) over all the times one didn't need the extra 20 meters (10x2) in the middle of things.

Last, if money is no consideration, all this falls by the side since each day one merely brings precisely the rope system one needs.  I don't think this fits most of us.

Fair. Though he did ask for examples of when the extra length added utility. I also said that it depends on how he's planning on using them. 

Kyle Tarry · · Portland, OR · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 448

Laralyn, I think that's a fair example!  The reality is that "need" is sort of a silly word anyway, since you could probably rap off pretty much all of these routes with a 30m rope if you really had to.   

I went for it and chopped 10m off my half ropes, so they are now 60m.  We'll see if I regret it.  I definitely think that a 70m single is a necessity, especially for cragging; I don't see a ton of routes that a 60m won't work on, but there are definitely some!

My ropes are mostly used for ice/mixed multipitch (probably 50% of their use), rock multi (25%) and steep alpine climbing (25%).  Not too worried about stuff like the local 1-2 pitch cragging spots!

Jake907 · · Anchorage Alaska · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

Best part about using 70s for ice climbing is that you can kick the shit out of them (it happens) and then lop off a few meters with no hard feelings. There are definately a few ice pitches around here (AK) that will go as one pitch with a 70 but must be split into 2 pitches otherwise.  I have 70s twin/doubles and when they go I'll buy another set.

Some people mention climbing with a twins/doubles as a party of 3.  I've done that before but wouldn't make a habit of it.  If you're following, that means you're swinging your razor-sharp ice tools right next to a tight, super skinny line.  

Melanie Shea · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 10

Nice for long ice 

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Laralyn Mowers wrote:

Fair. Though he did ask for examples of when the extra length added utility. I also said that it depends on how he's planning on using them. 

All good points. I’ll confess I could have read the exchanges more carefully.

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
Laralyn Mowers wrote:

To do that, would the leader tie in on a bight, and the belayer tie into both ends?

I do an “alpine girth hitch”. One partner pulls a bight through their belay loop at the mid point and then steps through it. No carabiner cross/gate loading or screw gate loosening worry.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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