Anchor confusion!

I am just transitioning into climbing outdoors and I am still getting a handle on anchor building, rappeling, and multipitch climbing. I have some questions about anchors!

I understand that each situation and chains (or whatever is at the top of your climb) calls for something different but...
If you're multipitch climbing, is it necessary to build an anchor or can you just girth hitch yourself with a sling into the chains, belay from there, and call it a day?
When do you have to build an anchor? What do you think is the best one?
Why can't I always just clip two quickdraws into chains (given that it's equalized)?

Thanks!

No matter where you are climbing single or multi-pitch you MUST build an equalized anchor at the top of each pitch. As for best or worst methods, there is no best way to build an anchor there are many different ways to set up an anchor each having their specific purpose so it's important you know each of their applications. As for clipping into the chains at the top of a route, it's generally not recommended as it creates more possible points of failure. I would clip directly into the bolts instead if they are available. Here is a good collection of videos by AMGA explaining some basic rock climbing principles to help you out although I would also recommend taking a course or learning from a trusted mentor who can show you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmCNNsjDrVA&list=PLajYFniMZtJgsk2RYOLK69AEKR8vIrWpT 

Emil Tjonneland wrote: No matter where you are climbing single or multi-pitch you MUST build an equalized anchor at the top of each pitch. 

I would say this is..false.  "MUST" is way too absolute.

FrankPS wrote:

I would say this is..false.  "MUST" is way too absolute.

What situation would this not be true?

Emil Tjonneland wrote: What situation would this not be true?

Here's one off the top of my head: Monolithic anchor with the rope to a big tree or boulder. Not equalized, not "redundant".

Emil Tjonneland wrote: What situation would this not be true?

Bolted anchors. Leader arrives, clips PAS or runner to one bolt, cloves to other bolt with rope. Belays off harness or attaches belay device to one of the bolts.

wivanoff wrote:

Here's one off the top of my head: Monolithic anchor with the rope to a big tree or boulder. Not equalized, not "redundant".

Ahhh yes very true.

Never say "always" in climbing.

Or "never". :-)

Emil Tjonneland wrote: No matter where you are climbing single or multi-pitch you MUST build an equalized anchor at the top of each pitch.  Here is a good collection of videos by AMGA 

Recently the AMGA has moved away from this hard and fast "equalization" principle.  The emphasis is now more on the strength of each piece and incorporating the load variable to your strongest piece.  Things change.  As the pool of available data and more examples of more diverse scenarios increases, so does conventional wisdom.  Equalization isn't as paramount as it was once deemed to be.  So if you're using older AMGA references, you're likely to see a difference in the touted importance of equalization vs. much more recent AMGA references, videos, etc.

Isobel M wrote: 

I understand that each situation and chains (or whatever is at the top of your climb) calls for something different but...
If you're multipitch climbing, is it necessary to build an anchor or can you just girth hitch yourself with a sling into the chains, belay from there, and call it a day?
When do you have to build an anchor? What do you think is the best one?
Why can't I always just clip two quickdraws into chains (given that it's equalized)?

First, you need to define what you say when you say multipitch.  Multipitch bolted routes?  Multipitch gear-protected routes?  These are two very different things.  From the context of what you wrote, I assume that you're referring to multipitch bolted routes.  The answer is that it varies and you're best served by having multiple options that are sound in terms of strength, positioning, ease of transition, etc.

What I mean by that, is your anchor may be influenced by your belay stance.  Sometimes you'll want a cordelette, sometimes you may want to use the rope to extend yourself away from the anchor bolts for one reason or another.  There is no "best" one, because "best one" is determined by several factors that will change from anchor to anchor.

There is an inherent flaw in thinking of anchoring as "just doing _______ and calling it a day".  If you're not actively analyzing each anchor to be the strongest and most beneficial in terms of all the different factors at play, you're doing it wrong.

As far as when you have to build an anchor-  If you're referring to two bolts, you don't have to really build an anchor, but you do have to attach yourself to an anchor and make sure your belay system incorporates that anchor any time you're going to be belaying off that anchor- which is going to likely be always.

If the chains are long enough and if I'm planning on belaying my second in directly off the anchor (which I do in most situations), I've clipped my device to both chains kind of like this picture.

If I arrive at a station like this, I can clove to one bolt with a locking biner, and attach my device to the ends of both chains with a locking biner, and be ready to belay in about 10 seconds.

I'm sure some might disagree, but (in my opinion) there's no need to build an anchor out of cord/slings/rope when you already have perfectly good chains that can accomplish the same goal much faster with less materials. 

^^AMGA actually just did an instructional video about that a few months ago.  Weird as hell but apparently legit.  Are you not concerned about triaxial loading?

Emil Tjonneland wrote: What situation would this not be true?

To add: in alpine climbing on super easy terrain, the leader may sometimes belay the follower up just from a stance.  Or, if you’ve topped out and anchored into one bomb proof anchor (like a tree) to belay your second off the harness, you would not need an “equalized” anchor.  At the top of a sport climb, people normally will setup a toprope with two QDs which isn’t necessarily “equalized” but is perfectly fine.

I think that many of the questions Isobel is asking are really important questions to ask that often get lost after someone has taken a course or watched videos to learn “THE way” it “must” be done.  The result is a lot of inefficiency and overbuilding (e.g: quads) and also overemphasis on rigging methods (e.g: quads) over strong primary placements.  If you ask the question: do two bomber bolts need to be “equalized?”, the answer is generally “no.”
To this (probably most important) question: “When do you have to build an anchor?”, the answer would be: when the possibility exists that a fall could trigger catastrophic failure.  I’d recommend John Long’s anchors book, even if it’s a bit dated (he writes a lot about quads), as he does a great job of laying out the big picture of anchor systems.  In short, you have to be able to safely protect against the worst case scenario in multipitch, which is a direct fall onto the anchors (Factor 2*).  If you are building an anchor using removable protection (trad gear), you want to rig your placements so that each piece is equally tensioned (“equalized”) to prevent shock loading in the event that one of the pieces pulls.  As far as how to do this, there are many different methods that are great for different situations...I would go with the simplest and quickest that satisfies this basic requirement.

Bill C. wrote: If the chains are long enough and if I'm planning on belaying my second in directly off the anchor (which I do in most situations), I've clipped my device to both chains kind of like this picture.

If I arrive at a station like this, I can clove to one bolt with a locking biner, and attach my device to the ends of both chains with a locking biner, and be ready to belay in about 10 seconds.

I'm sure some might disagree, but (in my opinion) there's no need to build an anchor out of cord/slings/rope when you already have perfectly good chains that can accomplish the same goal much faster with less materials.

Although I can't see what the yellow biners are connected to but from the picture this is really really bad. Can you say cross loading?

One thing that seems to have been left out of all of these post is generally you want to belay off the anchor and not off yourself. You don't have to but encase of an emergency you want to be disconnected from the system and if you are belaying directly off yourself it can make it a challenge. Also if someone takes a fall and you are belaying off yourself the pull can hurt. If you are belaying off yourself without a top belay system make sure you are below the anchor and the rope goes through the master point (hope you know this).

The best things to remember are the following.
1) Best if you attach yourself to both bolts in some way (be it master point or directly to both bolts).
2) Belay device off the a master point that connects both bolts with a device that can do that.

ViperScale . wrote:

Although I can't see what the yellow biners are connected to but from the picture this is really really bad. Can you say cross loading?

One thing that seems to have been left out of all of these post is generally you want to belay off the anchor and not off yourself. You don't have to but encase of an emergency you want to be disconnected from the system and if you are belaying directly off yourself it can make it a challenge. Also if someone takes a fall and you are belaying off yourself the pull can hurt. If you are belaying off yourself without a top belay system make sure you are below the anchor and the rope goes through the master point (hope you know this).

The best things to remember are the following.
1) Best if you attach yourself to both bolts in some way (be it master point or directly to both bolts).
2) Belay device off the a master point that connects both bolts with a device that can do that.

Geez, I wouldn't know where to start disagreeing with all this!

FrankPS wrote:

Geez, I wouldn't know where to start disagreeing with all this!

Well lets start up I am really bored with nothing to do at work right now!

Bill C. wrote: If the chains are long enough and if I'm planning on belaying my second in directly off the anchor (which I do in most situations), I've clipped my device to both chains kind of like this picture.

If I arrive at a station like this, I can clove to one bolt with a locking biner, and attach my device to the ends of both chains with a locking biner, and be ready to belay in about 10 seconds.

I'm sure some might disagree, but (in my opinion) there's no need to build an anchor out of cord/slings/rope when you already have perfectly good chains that can accomplish the same goal much faster with less materials.

if the direction of pull changes, this setup can be very dangerous because the main biner clipped to both chains can rotate into a cross loading situation. also, you are going to wear the shit outta that biner clipping it against steel chains. 

There are lots of tools in the toolbox. You need to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each.  Rules all have exceptions.

I'll walk thru anchors I used the other day, cause they were all very different.

P1 belay - the climb ends coming around a corner to a ledge, the gear is all laid out horizontally in a row, and the load is hard to the right if my partner falls. I placed  3 or 4 pieces, and chained them all together with clove hitches using the rope. I put a master point in and belayed direct off that using a grigri. I was not tied into the master point, but was on the other end of the rope tied to all those pieces.

P2. 3 peices equalized with a cordolette. I'm cloved into the master point, and I belayed direct off the anchor.

P2B.  The anchor moves 30' over on a ledge from the previews spot to some bolts. Used a 48" runner clipped to the bolts, tied a masterpoint with an overhand. Tied in with a Clove hitch.

P3 - at the top. Walked the rope around a huge boulder 30' from the edge and tied it back to itself. Gave myself enough of a leash to sit on the edge. Belayed direct off harness, no separate master point.

P1. 3 pieces tied with a cordolette. Direct belay.

P2. slung a large tree. Clove hitched to sling with the rope. Belayed direct off harness sitting on the edge.

P3. 2 bolts. Didnt have my 48" sling, so i Tied a bowline on a bite with the rope (bunny ears) clipped the bolts. Tied a masterpoint, belayed direct.

Many of my choices depended on things like... where is the anchor compared to where I want to belay?  If its above shoulder height i usually go for a direct or redirected belay.  If its low a direct belay is a pain to operate, so ill belay on my harness.  What is the direction of pull? If the gear is all inline with the load, i might clove them all together with the rope.  What gear do I have available? Do i have a cordolette or big slings?  Will my partner possibly need assistance or be hanging alot? If so, I prefer direct belays unless the anchor is suspect, then I like to put myself in a good braced stance and belay off the harness so I can be part of the anchor.

Hope that helps or at least opens you up to some options. Best thing I can suggest is follow someone.  You'll have plenty of time at each belay to sit and look at how they set it up.

wivanoff wrote:

Here's one off the top of my head: Monolithic anchor with the rope to a big tree or boulder. Not equalized, not "redundant".

So, if you are attached to a single tree, how are you not equalized?  

John Wilder wrote:

Given there's no possible way to equalize any anchor, I'd say you're probably a bit off base in your anchoring requirements.

For bolted anchors, make sure you clip both bolts in some fashion so that you and your partner are both connected to them. There's a ton of ways to do it- rope, cordlette, quad, etc.

 John has it right, the rest of the posts are mostly garbage. Opinions such as you MUST build an equalised anchor make me wonder what experience and knowledge people have when they reply on this forum, noobs talking to noobs springs to mind.

Greg D wrote:

So, if you are attached to a single tree, how are you not equalized?  

To equalize means to spread the load between a group. If you only have 1 point of contact you can't equalize because a group requires 2 or more.