Ready for flyboys?

Hi Mountain Project,

My friend and I are trying to climb flyboys, https://www.mountainproject.com/route/113665378/flyboys. He's done some multipitch before. I have lead climbed outdoors on 5.9, 5.10 before, but never fallen on lead. I have done lots of DWS at summersville lake, but never fallen on accident above 30 ft.

I have not done multipitch climbing before, although I have cleaned routes, rappelled, and I always knot the ends of the rope! I know a small amount of self rescue with prussics, aka I could ascend 10 ft up a rope if I go past a rappel station.

I climbed 5.11- in the gym, and typically project V5 boulders. To check if I have endurance, I climbed 12 5.9 and 1 5.10+ with a 15 lb backpack at the climbing gym in 1 hour (50 ft each?). (quite tired at the end)

Do you think we can safely do this climb in 1 day?

Thanks.

I have not done multipitch climbing before

Flyboy = 18 pitches? Sounds like a great idea. Hopefully you will do some shorter multi-pitch routes beforehand to get your sytsem dialed in.

Watch some youtube videos first

If you're going with someone experienced in multi pitch, you'll be fine. you can always just start with the intention of rappelling at pitch (insert pitch #) and keep going if you feel like it's going well. if you get sketched out, there is a bolt every couple feet so you can pull on draws. If you think you'll be moving slow, go on a weekday where you wont be holding up 6+ parties. you could also try prime rib first, which is shorter, and a grade easier.

the big thing with routes like this isn't if you can climb the grade. it's how well do you have your multi pitch systems dialed. you could look into the walk off as well if 18 rappels sounds difficult. 

Adam Hammershoi wrote: Watch some youtube videos first

+1 

"Youtube is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can post anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

You're fine. Just plan for the worst. Bring plenty of food and water, just in case there is an emergency. Be less worried if you're physically able to climb the whole thing and more concerned with what to do if some goes wrong.

I'll take this question in a different way.  You are probably not ready.  Not because you wouldn't make it to the top - but you almost certainly can not move fast enough to stay out of the way of other parties.  That route is an absolute gangbang on the weekends, and one slow party can ruin the day for everyone else.  Stay humble and practice your multipitch skills before you jump on a "grade IV" sport climb.  Once you've practiced a bit, then do Prime Rib.  Once you've done that, evaluate whether or not you're ready for Flyboys.

Floyd Eggers wrote:

+1 

"Youtube is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can post anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

This seems like a guaranteed way to learn some miss information.

Nick has it right. The climbing won't be difficult for you, but if you haven't done much multi-pitch you may not be moving very fast, which could potentially ruin the climb for others. It's really more like 16 pitches, some of which are fairly short. You definitely do not want to rappel the route either. Rapping Prime Rib isn't too bad, but set up a car or bike for the top of Flyboys.

The Matrix has some short 2-3 pitch climbs that would be good practice before getting on something longer.

Other parties have to come to expect slower moving groups on especially long routes. You guys are sounding kind of conceded. If they want to climbing it then climbing it. Let the faster moving parties pass at good large belay ledges. I have encountered the same thing where I've passed groups and been passed.  

Travis Bieber wrote: Other parties have to come to expect slower moving groups on especially long routes. You guys are sounding kind of conceded. If they want to climbing it then climbing it. Let the faster moving parties pass at good large belay ledges. I have encountered the same thing where I've passed groups and been passed.  

Going a little slow is one thing.  Trying to climb a 16+ pitch route with no multipitch skills is completely different. There is a certain level of efficiency that anyone climbing a long route should have.

Rock Climber wrote: Hi Mountain Project,

My friend and I are trying to climb flyboys, https://www.mountainproject.com/route/113665378/flyboys. He's done some multipitch before. I have lead climbed outdoors on 5.9, 5.10 before, but never fallen on lead. I have done lots of DWS at summersville lake, but never fallen on accident above 30 ft.

I have not done multipitch climbing before, although I have cleaned routes, rappelled, and I always knot the ends of the rope! I know a small amount of self rescue with prussics, aka I could ascend 10 ft up a rope if I go past a rappel station.

I climbed 5.11- in the gym, and typically project V5 boulders. To check if I have endurance, I climbed 12 5.9 and 1 5.10+ with a 15 lb backpack at the climbing gym in 1 hour (50 ft each?). (quite tired at the end)

Do you think we can safely do this climb in 1 day?

Thanks.

Go do it!  The bolts are abundant.  You can rappel from anywhere on the route if you feel like you're not moving quick enough. It's super easy for other parties to pass you as well, so you won't feel pressured to hurry. 

The cruxes are short with bolts at your knees and chest.

I'd say Flyboys is a slightly harder version of Prime Rib. Just barely. Go do it. You can climb as far as you want. 

i agree with nick sweeney for the most part.  if you are going to do it, do it on a weekday.  it is pretty crazy on a weekend (and you will see some pretty crazy things...).

another thing is that there is a fair amount of loose rock on it.  in particular when you are rapelling (if you rap the route instead of walk/bike/drive off the top).  i am concerned that climbers with your levels of experience will have a hard time not knocking a ton of rock down on folks below.  if you do this route, i highly recommend the walk/bike/drive off instead of rappelling.

i think the actual level of difficulty of the climbing on flyboys and prime rib are really similar.  i really wouldn't be able to distinguish between them.  overall, i would say flyboys is probably harder due to it being longer.

Jplotz wrote: I'd say Flyboys is a slightly harder version of Prime Rib. Just barely. Go do it. You can climb as far as you want. 

Based on this I'd say, why not go climb Prime Rib to prepare yourselves? It's probably not that crowded since Flyboys got put up. And you can take as much time as you want, however easy it is to pass on FB I think PR must be easier. Even when it's easy for others to pass you, it's not fun to know you have 5 parties breathing down your neck.

Did Flyboys on Friday July 6. With a few exceptions, most belay stations are on "ledges" as big as a bedroom and some as big as a basketball court. You literally walk between anchors 5 or 6 times, so other parties catching up to you can usually share the belay station and pass you easily. As for "belay transitions," you are just giving quickdraws to the other partner and hauling a rope through biners. This isn't trad where you are managing a full rack, making and breaking down anchors. So I don't think there is any "belay transition" issue here. As others said, you can rap at almost any point. BUT don't try this route if you are unware of the potential for loose rock and can manage your body and your rope so as not to hit other climbers below.

To me, this route was insanely clean for an 18 pitch route less than a year old - but then, I biked down and did not do the 18 raps. Finally, I thought a couple pitches were more like 10a, and despite some comments here. the bolt will not always be at your chest on the hardest moves. You can't aid some of the cruxes, and you will be above your bolt on 5-8  5-9 terrain you can't aid through. Those are just the facts, I'm not saying it's scary, just that you ill have to actually climb most cruxes. I do think it's bolted about as safely as possible, but you need to be able to lead pitch after pitch of sustained 5-8/5-9 (or 5-9/10 at a gym) without constantly hanging or falling. if you can't do that, save this route for when you will enjoy it.

prime rib is still pretty crowded.  and has plenty of loose rock...

Go do it and have an adventure! Sounds like a safe route to try and find out if you can handle it, you will probably have some minor issues with rope management as you learn, but otherwise crush it. I wouldn't listen to other people telling you what day of the week to climb or not climb it. People that are worried about slow parties can start earlier. If the route is so easy for them that they are waiting for everyone else, they can go climb something harder. Wear helmets, bring food, water and headlamps, check your knots...easy stuff. If you've never rappelled 18 times on loose or lower-angle terrain, it sucks. I'd go for the walk-off, you can use bikes to set up the shuttle?

Briggs Lazalde wrote:

Everyone's opinion varies. Always keep safety a priority above all else

Safety third.

Having climbed a little on Goat Wall, including Prime Rib, I'm genuinely curious what redeeming value there is to this route apart from it containing the purported 18 pitches. (My question has nothing to do with difficulty. Routes like Dierdre or Solar slab or the 1st flatiron are both easy and awesome. I'm not questioning the value of the route based on grade.)

• Average pitch quality based on other Goat Wall routes seems likely 1-2 stars (out of 4). Would even a quarter of the route's pitches be considered high quality if they were at a single pitch wall?
• The multiple move-the-belay spots are obviously a detraction from the quality and just add a bunch of time stacking, piling, sorting, and carrying ropes around on gravel ledges.
• Super hot, sunny, and dusty in an already very warm part of the state.
• Short, indistinct, forgettable pitches and generic features.
• Numerous huge ledges.
• Tops out below a road, providing no better views than you already saw while setting up the annoying car/bike shuttle. 
• Reaches no summit or spire.
• Crowded, especially with new climbers, and including parties rappelling the route.

As a thought experiment: If the belays had been bolted in such a way to create 50m-70m pitches, and it was then just another wandering and blocky low-quality 9 pitch route that covered the exact same terrain, what would the popularity be?

I think the appeal is there mainly due to accessibility in terms of style (sport), grade (soft 5.9), and approach (30 minutes). It's fun and casual. Most of the other bolted multi-pitch routes that come to mind are 5.10 and have a much longer approach. There are plenty of people who don't lead trad, or have alpine experience, or have friends to take them up those types of climbs, etc.

But no, I don't think it has much to offer for someone like yourself who is an experienced alpine climber and extremely fit.

Didn't read the other comments, but my partner and I just did this.

YES you can do it.
It's pretty tame (for your stated experience) and well bolted.
Topo from the gear store is helpful, but mostly useful for the raps (BUT)
Skip the rappels and shuttle mtn bikes to the top instead.

YGD, yada yada - go out and send it.

And don't forget about swimming in the swimming hole afterword. It's great.