Good dry rope for top roping

I’m looking to buy my first rope and would primarily be looking to use it for top roping to start and possibly to lead trad routes later on.  I’d also be looking to do some ice climbing top roping so I’d be looking for a dry rope.  One partner has a 9.5mm Mammut 70m and loves it,  another told me for top roping to get a 10mm.  I’m hoping to spend around $250.  Any advice on size and brands?
Thanks. 

This is a good one. Mammut Eternity

It is a 9.8, but Mammut ropes run fat, so a Mammut 9.8 will feel similar to a 10 mm in other brands. A solid, durable rope. Mammut ropes also tend to be on the less-stretchy end of the spectrum, so a bit better for TRing than some of the rubber bands out there.

If you want to go skinnier/lighter, the 9.5 Mammut your partner reccomends (Mammut Infinity) is a reliable choice.

JCM wrote: This is a good one. Mammut Eternity

It is a 9.8, but Mammut ropes run fat, so a Mammut 9.8 will feel similar to a 10 mm in other brands. A solid, durable rope. Mammut ropes also tend to be on the less-stretchy end of the spectrum, so a bit better for TRing than some of the rubber bands out there.

If you want to go skinnier/lighter, the 9.5 Mammut your partner reccomends (Mammut Infinity) is a reliable choice.

This recommendation is on the money, the Mammut Eternity Classic is what I use for top roping. If you want to go a bit thicker, the Mammut Gravity (10.2mm) would be a good choice--I think that will be my next TR rope once I wear the Eternity out (I've used it for 1.5 seasons now and it's still going strong).

I have had/am using 4 different of mammut ropes(sets). All I would recommend again.

Eiger? 10.5 great for TR a pain to lead with
Galaxy 10mm good all around.
Infinity 9.5 amazing for lead, a little stretchy for TR
Phoenix 8.0 half/twins only have about 20 pitches on them, but seem really sturdy and durable for the size.

I’ve used the eternity 9.8 and I think it should be everyone’s first rope. It’s affordable, good for TR, and good for lead. Not going to be the best in any one category, but is hard to argue against as the best ‘only have one rope’ on the market.

Beal Unicore ropes are the only rope I would recommend over mammut, and even then only just slightly. The joker 9.1 golden dry is an amazing rope, but definitely not what you are looking for.

If this is your very first rope you are new to climbing. So buy an inexpensive 10.1or so Elderid and dangle away. An Elderid is a sturdy rope and you can let your friends hangdog on it forever. You can get one for about $120 or even less if you look at all the discount sites. Then save a bit and get the slimmer sexier mammut with the dry coating bicolor that you use only for trad and ice...and experienced partners. Everyone needs a couple work horses for the day to day mileage TR.  Your expensive rope will last much longer. Fyi Check your belay device for fit. That's my O.O2

There is strong brand loyalty on this site(and among climbers in general).  I have always preferred Sterling ropes, for top rope and leading. The Sterling Marathon is a beast of a rope. I've had one for almost 25 years, I don't climb on it, but I use it for household stuff. Highly recommend them.

You can usually find them on sale somewhere. I like the Bicolored ropes my self, but that will cost a little extra. Backcountry has the 10.1mm on sale right now for $205 for a 60m, and $240 for a 70M.

Peter Herman wrote: I’m looking to buy my first rope and would primarily be looking to use it for top roping to start and possibly to lead trad routes later on.  I’d also be looking to do some ice climbing top roping so I’d be looking for a dry rope.  One partner has a 9.5mm Mammut 70m and loves it,  another told me for top roping to get a 10mm.  I’m hoping to spend around $250.  Any advice on size and brands?
Thanks. 

Wait, this is your first rope and you are hoping to spend around $250 and want it to be dry?  Can I ask you why?  A first rope used primarily for toproping will get trashed quickly regardless of the type or brand.  You should be looking for something in the 10mm diameter range for around $120.  Unless you are planning on using it for ice climbing there is absolutely no reason you need a dry rope either.  Just get a cheap beater rope and call it good.  Sierra Trading Post is a good place to look for inexpensive ropes, sign up for their deal flyer emails and get 25% of coupons regularly.

They are planning on using it for ice climbing.

I like Mammut, Sterling, and Beal.

Sterling Velocity 9.8 dry is a good rope.

Mammut Infinity 9.5 is a great rope. I don't have experience with Mammut's dry coatings but I'm on my second infinity and love it. A bit thin for top roping but their other ropes are good too.

BryanE wrote: They are planning on using it for ice climbing.

I like Mammut, Sterling, and Beal.

Sterling Velocity 9.8 dry is a good rope.

Mammut Infinity 9.5 is a great rope. I don't have experience with Mammut's dry coatings but I'm on my second infinity and love it. A bit thin for top roping but their other ropes are good too.

If you need dry, this is a great one.  It's supposedly a 9.6, but it feels like a 10.0.  It is also a 1x1 weave pattern which holds up to TR abuse much better than the traditional 2x2 weave pattern.  Sign up for the deal flyer, wait for a 25% off coupon and you can get it for $135 for a 70m dry rope, if you want the 60m it'll only cost you $113 with the 25% off.  

Buck Rio wrote: There is a guy called Walter Seabirt that has done some research on top roping affects on rope strength. His conclusion was once a top rope, always a top rope. Don't use it for leading. He loaded ropes repeatedly over a carabiner diameter radius, and then pull tested them.  They were good up until about 800 loadings, then they went downhill pretty fast.

So by all means get a beefy rope for top roping, but get something else for leading.  When I was your age I only had 1 rope, a Sterling Marathon 10.5mm, I used it for everything. I abused the shit out of it. So take it for what its worth.

Not sure if you are a troll or really believe this load of crap.  Toproping doesn't load a rope any differently than lowering after leading a route.  

JCM wrote: This is a good one. Mammut Eternity

It is a 9.8, but Mammut ropes run fat, so a Mammut 9.8 will feel similar to a 10 mm in other brands. A solid, durable rope. Mammut ropes also tend to be on the less-stretchy end of the spectrum, so a bit better for TRing than some of the rubber bands out there.

If you want to go skinnier/lighter, the 9.5 Mammut your partner reccomends (Mammut Infinity) is a reliable choice.

I'd second this. I think I have the Eternity Protect (supposed to help a little with abrasion), so not quite the dry version but a step up from standard. Feels beefy, has stood up well so far for TR applications, and great price-point for the quality.

Ken Noyce wrote:

Not sure if you are a troll or really believe this load of crap.  Toproping doesn't load a rope any differently than lowering after leading a route.  

I am among the group that is easily swayed by empirical data. But I guess if you lower off a route 800 times your rope may show the same damage that his ropes did. The damage was to the kern portion, which means you won't see the damage. Look on youtube, his case is compelling.

Mr. Seabirt was actually using gym ropes as his example, they get loaded over the same spot repeatedly. 

But by all means provide any testing that you have done to show the contrary and I'll probably believe that too.

Buck Rio wrote:

I am among the group that is easily swayed by empirical data. But I guess if you lower off a route 800 times your rope may show the same damage that his ropes did. The damage was to the kern portion, which means you won't see the damage. Look on youtube, his case is compelling.

Mr. Seabirt was actually using gym ropes as his example, they get loaded over the same spot repeatedly. 

But by all means provide any testing that you have done to show the contrary and I'll probably believe that too.

I'm not arguing that lowering 800 times isn't going to damage your rope, I'm arguing the point you made that you shouldn't lead on a toproping rope since as I pointed out, leading and lowering is no different than toproping (assuming no falls, if falls are taken, obviously leading is much more severe).

Ken Noyce wrote:

I'm not arguing that lowering 800 times isn't going to damage your rope, I'm arguing the point you made that you shouldn't lead on a toproping rope since as I pointed out, leading and lowering is no different than toproping (assuming no falls, if falls are taken, obviously leading is much more severe).

The testing dude was pointing out that top ropes will sustain damage that is not visible, albeit after many, many loadings. Lead falls and trad climbing in general will result in visible damage, in my experience, that makes retiring a rope pretty straight forward.

I’ve had good success with the Beal Top Gun 10.5 Unicore. I would say it’s sizing is comparable to a 9.8-10 from other manufacturers. You can get it dry treated. They are super burley and is a great all around rope.

Buck Rio wrote:

The testing dude was pointing out that top ropes will sustain damage that is not visible, albeit after many, many loadings. Lead falls and trad climbing in general will result in visible damage, in my experience, that makes retiring a rope pretty straight forward.

Which still is no reason to not use a rope that has been used for toproping for leading.  I can guarantee you that lead falls on overhanging terrain leave absolutely no visable damage to the rope, yet are obviously much more damaging than toproping.

Ken Noyce wrote:

I'm not arguing that lowering 800 times isn't going to damage your rope, I'm arguing the point you made that you shouldn't lead on a toproping rope since as I pointed out, leading and lowering is no different than toproping (assuming no falls, if falls are taken, obviously leading is much more severe).

I don't know about y'all, but I'm a top rope tough guy. I'll willingly top rope stuff that I might not even be able to get up on top rope, with all manner of falls, hangdogging, swings, and (I admit) Ondra-style screaming. The same is not true for leading. Sure, a lead fall puts more strain on the rope than a top rope fall, but I can count on my hands the number of lead falls I've taken this year. I probably take more falls in a single hard top rope climb than I do in an entire season of leading. So that's one possible explanation for why top ropes might get more damage than lead ropes.

Obviously YMMV if that's the explanation. I take a lot more lead falls in sport than trad, but I don't sport climb much because of where I live.

I see why you're saying what you're saying. It's my intuition too that lead climbing should damage ropes more than top roping. In general though, I don't think you'll gain much traction arguing against observed data. Logic is great for creating hypotheses and trying to explain what you're seeing, but if you observe something that doesn't seem logical, it's your logic that's wrong, not the observation. I don't have a sure explanation for why Seabirt observed what Seabirt observed, but unless you're accusing him of lying, he saw ropes get damaged more TRing than leading, and we need to fit our logic to those facts, not try to fit the facts to our presupposed logic.

There's a difference between facts and recommendations though. I don't know if I would go so far as to say "once a TR rope, never a lead rope". The rope inspection criteria set forth by manufacturers seem to work better than rope history for determining if a rope is safe to use for a given purpose.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

...

In general though, I don't think you'll gain much traction arguing against observed data. Logic is great for creating hypotheses and trying to explain what you're seeing, but if you observe something that doesn't seem logical, it's your logic that's wrong, not the observation. I don't have a sure explanation for why Seabirt observed what Seabirt observed, but unless you're accusing him of lying, he saw ropes get damaged more TRing than leading, and we need to fit our logic to those facts, not try to fit the facts to our presupposed logic.

It's not observed data, Seabirt didn't do a study comparing the damage from leading to the damage from toproping, he did a study on simulated gym topropes showing that there is damage to the core of the rope causing the strength to drop off rapidly after ~5000 (very severe, much more severe than any gym I have ever seen) toprope loading cycles (not 800 as was stated upthread).  My point is that there is absolutely no way to draw the conclusion that you shouldn't lead on a rope that has been used for toproping from that study (which is what the dude upthread was trying to say).

JCM wrote: This is a good one. Mammut Eternity

It is a 9.8, but Mammut ropes run fat, so a Mammut 9.8 will feel similar to a 10 mm in other brands. A solid, durable rope. Mammut ropes also tend to be on the less-stretchy end of the spectrum, so a bit better for TRing than some of the rubber bands out there.

If you want to go skinnier/lighter, the 9.5 Mammut your partner reccomends (Mammut Infinity) is a reliable choice.

Ive got this exact rope and its my favorite. 

Briggs Lazalde wrote:

Here we go again. Actually it helps immensely with keeping dirt out too. I have 2 identical ropes....one is older and dry with about 5x as many pitches on it as the nondry and its harder to get dirty, frays less, and is easier to clean... Ill probably pay the extra for dry only from now on

Yes, dry treatment can help with other things, however, for a complete noob buying their first rope, they will be wearing out the rope much more quickly than a typical experienced climber and will not get enough benefit out of the dry treatment to justify the additional cost (unless you find a killer deal like the one posted up thread).  

Also, a single anecdote about your dry rope lasting longer than your non-dry rope is useless, unless the ropes are the exact same rope other than the dry treatment with the exact same pitches it really means nothing.

Not a Troll wrote:

It's not observed data, Seabirt didn't do a study comparing the damage from leading to the damage from toproping, he did a study on simulated gym topropes showing that there is damage to the core of the rope causing the strength to drop off rapidly after ~5000 (very severe, much more severe than any gym I have ever seen) toprope loading cycles (not 800 as was stated upthread).  My point is that there is absolutely no way to draw the conclusion that you shouldn't lead on a rope that has been used for toproping from that study (which is what the dude upthread was trying to say).

Well, it's still observed data, but I see your point: the observed data isn't what Buck Rio said, and his conclusion doesn't follow from the observed data.