Big Toe Amputation

Hi there

Wondering of anyone out there has had a big toe amputation.  If so, what impact did it have on your gait, balance, and climbing.   I am struggling with the decision to amputate my toe in order to make a new "thumb" as my right thumb was torn off in a climbing accident.  Any info is greatly appreciated,

A.

Did not Reinholt Messner lose seven (7) toes and still climb at a reduced but high level?  

https://www.google.com/search?ei=dStAW6P1GsyU0wLRuZH4DQ&q=Reinholt+Messner+toes&oq=Reinholt+Messner+toes&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4411.8893.0.9440.6.6.0.0.0.0.571.571.5-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.1.570...0i10k1.0.onsmvsab2CE

P.S.

For what is worth, my left thumb suffered a crush amputation from rockfall, but they re-attached it.

I'd say a thumb is probably more important for climbing than a big toe. Probably for a lot of other day to day tasks also...

Mind sharing with us how you lost your thumb?

Sounds like a tough decision. I would think climbing—as well as pretty much every other day-to-day activity—without a big toe would be less difficult than climbing without a thumb. Did surgeon give you chance of success? Is there a chance it wouldn’t work and you could lose toe and not get a thumb either?

Good luck whatever you decide. Keep us posted. 

(Ignoe MyNamechange)

Micronut, of the family Nut, AKA Scott, (A Dentist ?iirc) is your go-to,

 over where the heros wear their capes in the dark,

so no one, with out 'the light' can tell who the HEROZare

Scott,-" micronut" Has a contact to someone who has had it done
&
(Dr to be) altelis, has stepped up big time,
(removed the link)

be well in your choice,What ever it may be....

 if your youth demands ?- Take full advantage NOW,

 its been ...? how Long It was April when you explained

,I'LL leave your story for You to tell, -

 but will say to those who's curiosity is un-truncated?  

,In both cases, ;The Cord did the deed & a gruesome sounding deed, indeed!

also, Quntum7, in that helpful, Taco thread, I'm in on what neebee said and can put you in touch with a "Thumbless Joe"

Brian, the man; "The Mouse of Merced" has lived as a true "One Thumb Joe" for the last 45+ years, so he would gnow!

 but, I think,  he would'a if he a'coulda', if you would like you could ask him...

*
@ Oklahoma City?{flat lands ? Rock in Missouri?)sorry only been there once.  
 J Barritt (2 'R's & 2'T's) I often confuse you with the CamanBrac Guy? is that you?
As for wether its 'Meds or a lack of? It is a serotonin; thing, sleep evades me. So I'm sorry to offend, it is not meant to!
In all I do, I doit here less than@# planB And If its not to your liking to be a moment off the beam, please dont try to read anything i offer up

Michael, I can never tell if you are "off your meds" or on some new ones when you post this wierd stuff.... ;)

@ the OP, I knew a guy born with a partial hand (no fingers or thumb, lower portion of palm on both sides) that was an excellent climber.

He had all his toes.

quantum7 wrote: Hi there

Wondering of anyone out there has had a big toe amputation.  If so, what impact did it have on your gait, balance, and climbing.   I am struggling with the decision to amputate my toe in order to make a new "thumb" as my right thumb was torn off in a climbing accident...

Want an opinion? 

Your great toes (big toes) are most important for walking, balance, etc. And i'd think especially for climbing. I'm sitting here this morning thinking your question and about my climbing skills, and technique (not that I'm very good, I'm not), but I believe I'd do without my thumb before I'd go without a big toe. And, I've had repairs done on both big toes, each time it was 9 -12 months before the swelling subsided enough to be considered somewhat "back to normal", and by 18 months, all was normal. The pain persisted for 6+ months. I'm very careful of those digits now (both surgeries were a result of some self-inflicted, not very mindful accidents/problems).

Anyway, that's what I think.

First no matter what choice you make I wish you good luck - and a speedy recovery if you opt for the surgery. Thinking about this and thinking about how complex the foot is I’d weigh what the risks were as part of the decision to amputate your toe and how successful the surgery might be. It’s gonna require rehab for both foot and hand so keep that in mind. Secondly you’re living without the thumb now and it would be interesting to understand your quality of life.

Personally I’d not have the amputation. 

I personally know a climber missing a big toe. He had the exact same surgery you  are talking about - toe for thumb replacement. He can climb 5.12. biggest challenge is finding shoes that fit properly, mythos seem to work for him. He can climb cracks, slab, face, steep terrain. It's amazing how the body adapts

Michael Schneider wrote:

@ Oklahoma City?{flat lands ? Rock in Missouri?)sorry only been there once.  
 J Barritt (2 'R's & 2'T's) I often confuse you with the CamanBrac Guy? is that you?
As for wether its 'Meds or a lack of? It is a serotonin; thing, sleep evades me. So I'm sorry to offend, it is not meant to!
In all I do, I doit here less than@# planB And If its not to your liking to be a moment off the beam, please dont try to read anything i offer up

No offense taken, just wondering....no offense intended either.

Other dude is not me, there's better rock in OK than mo, and it's made a good home base for me. 1hr plane ride or 10hr drive opens up a world of possibilities.

Hope you're better rested!

Hi all

@Scott - they tried to reattach mine.  6 days of waiting and watching with leeches attached every 2 hours.  A blood clot eventually caused it's demise, although the thumb was so badly damaged it probably wouldn't have survived anyway.  

@Marc H - It happened at the damn climbing gym.  Nothing exotic -  it was just another day at the climbing gym.  What I remember is being about 2/3 of the way up the route and pulling up slack to try to clip the draw. As is often the case for me, I had trouble reaching the draw. I'm quite short at only 5'1.  What I believe happened next is that I fell before clipping. I have vague memories that my brain thought I was going to hit the ground because of the extra slack that was out.  I don't think in the 10 years I have been climbing that I have ever fallen while trying to clip. I have also never taken a "huge whipper". So maybe my brain and my body weren't familiar with this feeling. What followed is also difficult for me to remember clearly. I don't recall making any conscious decision to reach out and grab the rope. I think on an instinctive level my brain kicked into survival mode and caused me to reach out to the rope. I have no idea if a draw was involved.  It all happened so incredibly fast. Somehow the rope twisted around my hand during the fall. When the belay device finally arrested my fall, I looked down to see that my hand was mangled and my thumb was completely gone.  It was instantly torn off by the force and my poor middle and ring fingers were attached by nerves. What I recall next is screaming and being lowered to the ground.  It was then a long wait til the ambulance
arrived.  I was most definitely in shock because I do not recall any pain.  I went to two hospitals before finally being transferred to Vancouver General where they had the better plastics team.  The rest is history.

@Michael - thanks for your lyrical posts here and on ST.  I will try to contact Mouse from Merced.  Also,  its been 3 and a half months and youth(?) well, I am 45 and like to consider myself youthful...  

      Still hurts to look at this photo.

I’m really sorry, that’s one freaky accident!

I have no personal experience in the matter, but I would try to get really good answers, from couple different doctors, ideally someone familiar with climbing, as far as what the chance of success is, for the toe-to-thumb surgery. Show them videos of what the climbing you do looks like. A lot of people who are not familiar with climbing think mountaineering...

And some people would choose the surgery mostly for cosmetic reasons. The thumb might not be fully functional for anything other than light pinching/support, but it looks better. Which may not be your motivation.

I personally know two people who are missing an entire hand from the wrist on, and they are amazing climbers. One of them is on this site, she will hopefully respond when she is back from climbing. And I have seen another lady who is missing all fingers down to the palm, but does have a wrist/palm.

Having seen them climb, I think I personally would be tempted to leave my toe alone, and just climb with what you have, out of a worry that I would end up without a functional toe and also with not enough thumb function restored to be worth the trouble.. 

If anything, it doesn’t sound like the surgery needs to happen right this moment? So maybe try for a year and reassess then? Best of luck, and keep us posted with what you decide. 
Edited to add: reach out to Paradox Sports. They might know people in your situation, or have resources available. 

I had both big toes amputated in 2008 as well as the toes next to them due to frostbite. Doctors told me I would have arthritis in my feet and toes within 4-5 years and my balance and gait would be off. I experienced none of those issues. The body is incredibly resilient and adaptive. Sometimes when walking on hard surfaces barefoot, I notice it in my smaller toes, but with shoes on I feel exactly like I did with all 10 toes  

Since 2008 I have run several marathons and ultras. The only part of life I missed was rock climbing and wearing sandals. This last weekend I rock climbed for the first time in ten years to show my young sons not to be afraid of heights when tied in to a rope and harness. I started on a 5.7, moved to a 5.10 and then got halfway up a 5.11. It’s definitely harder without big toes, but I was able to do it and have fun. I didn’t think I would ever be able to do that.

I still can’t wear flip flops, but life is still good without big toes. 

I'm surprised by the number of "leave it as it is" responses.  I'd rather have a semi-functional thumb for the hundreds of small things I do everyday that necessitate thumbs, regardless of my climbing ability. But that's just me.

How well have you adapted to the thumb-less life? Do you consider yourself in any way limited by your current arrangement? Have you gotten second, third, and fourth opinions?

I have a friend who had an almost identical injury. When the docs reattached his thumb, it lead to two years of the most excruciating pain he had ever experienced as the connections grew back. Even years later, the pain is debilitating at times - but he's a surgeon and needs his thumb for work, so there's that.

Sucks that you're having to make this decision! Best of luck!

As someone who had doctors tell my folks to take a toe to make it a finger - don't! Especially since you have other finger amputations. You'll be wrecking a perfectly good limb to make a underwhelming version of a thumb. With time, you'll adapt to the thumb and finger nubs you have left. 

Welcome to the club of upper limb gimps, please feel free to ping me if you want any resources or to join our swap group of gloves :) 

ETA: old thread response, derp. Offer still stands.

I can't believe it has been over 2 years since that message.  So much has changed.  I chose not have the toe transfer and I am so glad that I didn't rush into it. I wanted my brain to teach my body how to adapt, and I also really, really did not want to have another surgery.  I started climbing about 5 months after the accident (top-roping very easy stuff). I tried a bunch of different belay devices since the gri-gri was no longer possible, and ended up finding success with the BD Pilot. Climbing hurt like hell, but I was determined.  A friend of mine who is a route-developer incentivized me to start leading again by letting me pick a brilliant line at a new area. He scrubbed it, put in an anchor and gave me the first ascent.  I named the route One Thumb Up and it was given a Top 100 status in our local guide book this year : )   2 years later, I am back to leading 5.11 trad - although not without challenges.  Clipping the rope is highly frustrating.  As much as possible I try to use my left hand for placing gear and clipping, but that isn't always an option. I cry a lot less en route, but I am still known to get really angry when I can't make a move that I could pre-accident.  These days, I don't let it bother me as much because I am just so grateful to be able to climb.  I know how much worse my accident could have been.  I started mountain biking this year because of covid, and that has been the best discovery I've made since trying out climbing for the first time. I don't know why I waited so long.  I had to do a little jury-rigging and move the shifter and dropper post to the left side of the bike and, clearly, my grip of the right handle bar is not ideal, but I make it work.  Lots of physio, acupuncture, massage, and finger strengthening exercises help keep the pain manageable. My partially amputated fingers have really shitty circulation and are constantly cold, but I've found ways to mitigate it so that I can still climb and bike.  An interesting outcome is the fact that my expensive prosthetic fingertips sit in a drawer gathering dust.  I was initially so worried about the appearance of my hand, so I had fingertips made that turned out shockingly realistic. Problem is, they just get in the way. Because there is no sensory input when I wear them, they are essentially useless with the exception of aesthetics. I also decided that I did not want to care what anyone else thought of my weird new hand - so that was a win.  Thanks to Andrew, Detrick, and La Momoface for your comments.  So interesting to hear different perspectives from everyone. Pretty rad that you are back to climbing Andrew!  

This story made my day :)

I am so happy for you, congratulations. Thank you very much for posting this. You are a wonderful person. 

Hi, my name is Thomas and I lost 8 toes in this year but I still can climbing on wall. I met Magda, which is prosthetic and she made for me inserts for climbing shoes. If you want more information, you will write me: tomasz.szmytkowski@gmail.com.

I've been digging into the toe to hand transfer for quite some time and I think it's worth considering the new advances in surgery.

Insead of the big toe, the second toe can be transferred which is less important for the foot.

Instead of the full big toe, half of it can be transferred, keeping half big toe for walking.

Ii's possible to transfer only the skin and nail, and get the bone from somewhere else, like the iliac crest. You keep the fully functional big toe like that, but the thumb doesn't get a new joint.

Someone mentioned cold after amputations, give it a try to nitroglycerin patches.