Dyneema vs. Nylon Runner for anchoring

I have been using the clove hitch with a Dyneema sling (Clove Hitch Trad Anchor) to build my anchors, but after watching the DMM Video(DMM Sling test) of them breaking slings, with the knotted Dyneema breaking at way less than the knotted Nylon sling, I am considering changing to the Nylon 240cm sling.

Other than the sheer difference in bulk, why wouldn't I change?

I don't think anyone has ever said this on Mountain Project before, but have you tried building an anchor with the rope?

If you use the search on the top right you will find approximately 5,000 threads discussing the DMM video comprehensively :)

You answered your own question.... 240cm nylon slings are pretty bulky. The lack of stretch in the anchor material is basically irrelevant since you will be belaying your second on a big long stretchy climbing rope. 

For building your actual anchor, dyneema is fine.  Just don’t anchor yourself in with it.

Keep it simple PS Dymena is junk.

Just used a double length dyneema sling with a sliding X. Its PERFECTLY EQUALIZED and the fastest, best way.

The clove hitch slips, which adds a dynamic component that isn't represented in the DMM Sling test video. I'm not sure that would cause me to use it--just saying that there's a key difference in the situations.

Actually I clove my rope to the anchor. Using the rope AS the anchor on gear routes is a PITA. I maybe will if it is the end of the climb, and I'm on a giant ledge, but otherwise I find it cumbersome and limiting. For bolts, I use the Super 8 or whatever you want to call it, or a couple of draws, unless I am leading all the pitches, in which case I'll just clove in to the master point. 

Dyneema is actually pretty nice for Ice, it doesn't soak up nearly us much water.

There is quite a bit on this topic already, now that you mention it, but I like attention.

John Wilder wrote:

That would be incorrect. I'd argue with you about it, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't listen anyway.

Maybe for you it would be an argument, but for me it would be a discussion.

In an argument, you're trying to win the argument, i.e. show how much righter you are than the other person, and when the other person doesn't bow before your intellect, you get hurt and angry. I mean this as the colloquial "you", not you personally--I'm guilty of this myself sometimes.

In a discussion, you present the evidence you have, and the person you're discussing with presents the evidence they have, and everyone, including people who aren't even involved in the discussion, can read the evidence and make up their own minds, with no hurt feelings: everyone wins. And sometimes, even if the person you're discussing with isn't persuaded during the discussion, they have more evidence from the discussion, and later they gain even more evidence that does persuade them: again, everybody wins.

My evidence isn't particularly strong that clove hitches slip--it's just my observation from personal experience and hearsay from more experienced climbers. So I think there's actually a good chance you could persuade me here if you actually presented any evidence for your belief. But even if you didn't persuade me, I can't imagine why you think that's such a bad thing that you won't say why you believe what you believe. It's just simply not that important that someone is wrong on the internet.

In any case, please don't accuse me of not listening just because I don't immediately agree with everything I hear when I listen.

Peter J wrote: Just used a double length dyneema sling with a sliding X. Its PERFECTLY EQUALIZED

No, it is not!

 and the fastest, best way.

No, it is not!!

Greg D wrote: No, it is not!

No, it is not!!

What's faster than a sliding X?!

Peter J wrote:

What's faster than a sliding X?!

Perhaps the rope is faster.  No need to argue if you feel different.  You can take one point for faster.  But, that wasn't my point.  

Faster?  Maybe?
Perfectly equalized? No.
Redundant?  No
The best way?  No.  See above.

Greg D wrote: No, it is not!

No, it is not!!

I think (hope) he may have been trolling.

A single sling for a sliding x is not kosher. Use two slings for redundancy or better yet two slings with load limiters for knots.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Maybe for you it would be an argument, but for me it would be a discussion.

In an argument, you're trying to win the argument, i.e. show how much righter you are than the other person, and when the other person doesn't bow before your intellect, you get hurt and angry. I mean this as the colloquial "you", not you personally--I'm guilty of this myself sometimes.

In a discussion, you present the evidence you have, and the person you're discussing with presents the evidence they have, and everyone, including people who aren't even involved in the discussion, can read the evidence and make up their own minds, with no hurt feelings: everyone wins. And sometimes, even if the person you're discussing with isn't persuaded during the discussion, they have more evidence from the discussion, and later they gain even more evidence that does persuade them: again, everybody wins.

My evidence isn't particularly strong that clove hitches slip--it's just my observation from personal experience and hearsay from more experienced climbers. So I think there's actually a good chance you could persuade me here if you actually presented any evidence for your belief. But even if you didn't persuade me, I can't imagine why you think that's such a bad thing that you won't say why you believe what you believe. It's just simply not that important that someone is wrong on the internet.

In any case, please don't accuse me of not listening just because I don't immediately agree with everything I hear when I listen.

I have scientific data that you are arguing with yourself.

ps. Never belay off of one sling, I don't care how its tied....Hrmpf™.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: Never belay off of one sling, I don't care how its tied....Hrmpf™.

Well, at least we can agree on one thing. :)

Self equalizing anchors is fake news.

Belay loops are commonly sewn from two pieces of webbing or one piece sewn to function as two. You may want to actually look at yours from time to time.

Note as well they are nearly always, iirc, sewn in Nylon. There is a lesson there, lets see if you can figure it out.

Nope. Never belay off a single anything that can be reasonably backed up.

Ryan Swanson wrote: Like a belay loop.

Belay loops are often made of 2 pieces of webbing or one sewn to function as two. Some would say you are also able to "reasonably" back them up (but few do) and are stuck with using what you are provided (ie like a belay device or one locking carabiner for the device or the rope, none are easily backed up in actual use).

You seem a little slow too as few equate the harness loop with belaying off a single sling as they aren't made the same as one you would normally construct an anchor with.

Also note, that on heavy duty big wall harnesses there are 2x2 loops, sometimes one inside the other or a separate one....backed up for heavy duty use.

You really have no understanding of climbing gear construction or basic principles of redundancy, do you?

You don't belay off of one cam and its one sling, do you? Note also how BD doubles the sling on their C4 cams at the highest wear point.

Regardless yes, technically a belay loop is often from one piece of webbing, BUT, by nature of it's construction (typically with sewn bar-tacks that are then overlain by another sewn strand) it functions as if it were two. The overlaying layer, by being separated by additional sewn points, functions as another sling. Note there are 3 layers where the bar-tacks are and it is made of Nylon.

If any single section of webbing in a belay loop were to fail it is backed up by another.

Conversely, as I posted previously, a standard sewn single sling, with a short sewn section, has mostly many un-redundant points. So, I don't care what you personally do, but if I am going to recommend something to others I am going to recommend redundancy in anything that can be practically and easily backed up and a single sling certainly can be.

So, a standard sewn sling (which is not remotely constructed the way a belay loop is made) should be backed up by something else. And I don't care how you tie it and **think** you have created adequate redundancy, you often have not ideally done so as typically large sections of the webbing are not backed up in anyway (inb4 neener neener Ryan Swanson comes up with some macrame he likes, matters not).

Back up all single slings you can if you are going to belay from them. Just tie the rope into another point too for redundancy. The rope should always be tied into two separate points of the anchor, imo, that way everything is redundantly tied together.

That's so you prevent this from happening and don't die:

Credit: Mikey Schaefer

What, me worry wtf Ryan Swanson does? Naw. But good thing Mikey backed it up or he would be dead.