Multipitch rappel question

You're the first one rapping a route with bolted anchors with rap rings (no chains connecting the bolts). You arrive at the next station which is a tiny ledge with barely enough room for you and your partner. Do you build a quick anchor (say sliding x or figure 8 with double length sling) and clip your tether into that? Haven't ran into such a tiny ledge on the easy multis I've done so far. Luckily all stations have been on spacious ledges so I have just tethered to one bolt and called off rappel. Just wondering what is the normal practice when there is not a lot of room. I personally would never just hang off one bolt but have heard my temporary partners say that's all they ever do for rapping.

Tether to both bolts, 2 alpine draws. Yer gonna die.

Check out the Quadalette anchor. It's conveniently pre-equalized with the same mechanism as the Sliding-X but with load limiting knots to create some amount of redundancy. This is also a nice solution for small ledges, or cramped stances, as it allows each person (if only two are rappelling) to have their own "compartment" so to speak. It's also quick and easy to attach and un-attach as you're making your way down. 

Yes, build an anchor using the bolts, and the entire climbing party clips into that anchor as they arrive at it.

Assuming the bolts look sound and are in good rock: Clip one bolt to the next bolt with a quickdraw or whatever else you have, and each person hangs on one bolt. It's redundant because if the bolt blows, you're connected to the adjacent bolt. If there are many raps, it's not worth cluttering the bolts with a quad or any other setup.

Depends on your personal level of risks, but I know many/most people who happily do the above.

^^ aaaaand someone beat me to it ^^

I always PAS into one bolt and then off the second loop of my PAS a draw to the other bolt. When your second gets to you, they clip their PAS into the second loop of my PAS. That way both climbers are into both bolts with minimal gear clutter. 

Some of you people are building full anchors?! Ya'll needa chill.

It's a bolt, that you're placing a non dynamic force on to. It's not going anywhere unless its a rusty star-drive that Warren Harding himself placed. Just connect the bolts with a  QD if you're that worried.

My preference is the quad.  First one to rappel attaches pre rigged quad to both anchor points and tethers to one of the two master points on the quad, goes off rappel, and begins to thread the rings as the Second descends.  Once the second arrives and tethers to the quads master point, you can finish pulling the rope to the mid point and either basket the rope, or toss it for the next rappel.  Then both climbers rig for the next rappel by “stacking” their devices, and thereby transfer their weight to the climbing rope  from the quad. This allows the next “first” rappeler to clean the quad from the anchor points and take it with them to the next rap anchor for repetition number two. 

Make it as complicated as possible and use several pieces of gear, as some are suggesting.

Or, use as little gear as possible to clip yourself into both bolts.

It really is that simple. 

You have good rap anchors with rings? There's plenty of room for two carabiners from both party's tethers and the rope in each rap ring. No one builds a fucking quad anchor or other such bullshit on rappels that have fixed rings. Which is what Greg D is saying but with profanity.

Tim Stich wrote: You have good rap anchors with rings? There's plenty of room for two carabiners from both party's tethers and the rope in each rap ring. No one builds a fucking quad anchor or other such bullshit on rappels that have fixed rings. Which is what Greg D is saying but with profanity.

That was awesome Tim. Thanks for making me spit my pina colada all over myself. Fortunately, I can jump in the ocean to wash off. 

Greg D wrote: Make it as complicated as possible and use several pieces of gear, as some are suggesting.

Or, use as little gear as possible to clip yourself into both bolts.

It really is that simple. 

Is the quad anchor too complex for you to figure out? Arguably uses less gear and is simpler, and more efficient, to practically use. But, I hear where you're coming from and, yeah, two alpine draws will do the trick but can get annoyingly clustered when two people are using that method through rings and then trying to feed rope through. 

So, it may seem a bit overkill but the efficiency of the quad is, in my opinion, far superior to any other method. 

^^^ha.  I like your attempt to insult. So cute. No surprise hearing from you.  You got mad at me a year or two ago when I mocked the usually MP shit show on “how to lower someone in guide mode” ON PAGE 7.

Tim Stich wrote: You have good rap anchors with rings? There's plenty of room for two carabiners from both party's tethers and the rope in each rap ring. No one builds a fucking quad anchor or other such bullshit on rappels that have fixed rings. Which is what Greg D is saying but with profanity.

It's not terribly hard or slow to have a pre-tied anchor to throw on the two bolts when you get there. It's not like you're having a unique anchor every single rappel, just two that you reuse over and over. 

I personally prefer having the pre-tied anchor (normally just use an overhand in the middle of a single length sling) so the rings aren't that cluttered and don't have to worry about not having room if there's any other parties at the anchor on their way up. There also a decent amount of rap anchors that I've come to that have a quicklink and no ring so not a ton of room. 

Greg D wrote: ^^^ha.  I like your attempt to insult. So cute. No surprise hearing from you.  You got mad at me a year or two ago when I mocked the usually MP shit show on “how to lower someone in guide mode” ON PAGE 7.

Cute? I guess. It was hardly intended to be an insult. It was a legitimate question. I will leave you be to your "pina colda" and never speak up again on the forums. 

Jesus, Greg. There's nothing more to be said here. Ha ha.

"Forget it, Jake. It's Gumbytown."

Max Rausch wrote: Some of you people are building full anchors?! Ya'll needa chill.

It's a bolt, that you're placing a non dynamic force on to. It's not going anywhere unless its a rusty star-drive that Warren Harding himself placed. Just connect the bolts with a  QD if you're that worried.

Bad advice. Bolts can and do pull out under body weight alone. I clip into a single bolt all the time but I'm under no qualms that it can be dangerous. For multi-pitch rappels I generally tend break down an alpine draw and have two non-lockers with a double length sling tied into a masterpoint for everybody to clip in to. If the climb has bolted anchors anyway I already have this on my harness because I just don't break in down and re-use it. It takes like 5 more seconds to clip that into the bolts and then clip yourself into the masterpoint. Either that or clip together the chains of both bolts with an alpine draw (like you mentioned).

How about last year in Yosemite Valley on Super Slide? This comment is from Natalie on MP.

IMPORTANT UPDATE FOR THOSE TRYING TO RAP WITH A SINGLE 70
 

 Yesterday my partner and I were setting up the last 70m rappel (as per Climbing Ivy's instructions) when one of the anchor bolts ripped out. We used the nearby bush tree to set up a backup with a cordelette and a biner, but with the coming rainy season, someone who has the know-how and tools should definitely go up there and replace the anchor bolt. My partner and I were really shocked it came out, and thankful neither of us were fully relying on it!                 Nov 13, 2017 

Or how about the climber who died stick-clipping his way up a route.
http://rockandice.com/climbing-accidents/bolt-breaks-climber-falls-to-death/

Like I said, I often times clip into a single bolt but to say that bolts don't fail is just wrong.

Now rereading the first post it sounds more about making room in a cramped rap stance. In practice, even a hanging belay where you are hip to hip with your partner is not a big deal. But yes, in some situations you could in fact build an anchor to allow each of you to space out some. One clips directly into the bolts and the other to the power point on the extra anchor. Usually though, you just extend your tethers with some extra slings and or draws so you can get away from your sweaty, stinky partner. And really, don't do this on every rap. Others will be waiting to rappel above you and you shouldn't create a clusterfuck of extra fiddling.

What I do is clip into one bolt using the extension on my rappel device, and my partner does the same on the other bolt. It’s not backed up, (I do back it up if the bolts are questionable)but If the bolts look good and have rap rings it’s quick and easy and makes less of a cluster and allows my partner and I to rap faster and more efficiently. 

A common practice is to clip the two bolts together with a draw. Then each climber clips into one bolt. Then they just rub shoulders. 

BryanE wrote:

Bad advice. Bolts can and do pull out under body weight alone. I clip into a single bolt all the time but I'm under no qualms that it can be dangerous. For multi-pitch rappels I generally tend break down an alpine draw and have two non-lockers with a double length sling tied into a masterpoint for everybody to clip in to. If the climb has bolted anchors anyway I already have this on my harness because I just don't break in down and re-use it. It takes like 5 more seconds to clip that into the bolts and then clip yourself into the masterpoint. Either that or clip together the chains of both bolts with an alpine draw (like you mentioned).

How about last year in Yosemite Valley on Super Slide? This comment is from Natalie on MP.

IMPORTANT UPDATE FOR THOSE TRYING TO RAP WITH A SINGLE 70
 
Or how about the climber who died stick-clipping his way up a route.
http://rockandice.com/climbing-accidents/bolt-breaks-climber-falls-to-death/

Like I said, I often times clip into a single bolt but to say that bolts don't fail is just wrong.

If you are rapping on two bolts that can both pull under body weight, you need to re-evaluate your decision to commit to them and not just build an anchor to equalize them - you need to leave behind gear. If one bolt goes, and the other bolt can't handle the force of what is definitely going to be less than a FF0.25 fall that is entirely a swing, WTF were you doing without a gear backup to begin with?

If a bolt is that suspect, bounce it while still on rappel. That'll generate far more force than body weight and tell you exactly what you need to know. Unless you are more than a party of 2, you never need more than a QD between the bolts or a locker clipping chains together if they are there.