Scarpa Instinct VS or VSR

Karsten Walker wrote:

My experience is the opposite with the two shoes. The Instinct VS has a more pointed toe box and, combined with a better tension system and more of a midfoot (fractional difference), tends to have more tension and big toe precision. The Skwama isn't bad, but overall I think it's in a weird place in the LS lineup and amongst other aggressive shoes. I do like the toe patch rubber more, but I wouldn't say either performs better or worse than the other.  If you simply refer to pros, more current Scarpa pros wear the VSR (McColl, Puccio, Kruder) than LS athletes who wear the Skwama (almost no one outdoors).

It's likely just down to personal preference.  The skwama heel feels like garbage to me.

My Skwamas also stretched a ton and the black plasticky material around the heel cup started getting brittle/flakey. They weren't a bad shoe, very comfortable actually, just not for me,

Mark Orsag wrote: Love the VSRs. Softer more comfortable shoe yet downturned. They smear exceptionally well and edge a lot better than one might think. All the other shoes in my climbing bag are La Sportivas but these have earned their place. I weigh 165 for a bigger guy they might not work as well Two female climbing partners who don’t weigh Much bought them and love them.

Mark Orsag wrote: Love the VSRs. Softer more comfortable shoe yet downturned. They smear exceptionally well and edge a lot better than one might think. All the other shoes in my climbing bag are La Sportivas but these have earned their place. I weigh 165 for a bigger guy they might not work as well Two female climbing partners who don’t weigh Much bought them and love them.

Hey Mark Orsag, 

I’m also female and am thinking of getting these online (they don’t sell them to try on In Australia) how did your female climbing partners size them, compared to their street size and maybe another climbing shoe.? I wear katanas in a 40. Women’s scarpa velocity in a 41, as they fit smaller and the men’s scarpa vs I tried in a 40 which fit, but I could even get a 40.5. I have a slim foot wth low volume so the guys shoes are at times too wide for me.
Cheers

Lani Rule wrote:

Hey Mark Orsag, 

I’m also female and am thinking of getting these online (they don’t sell them to try on In Australia) how did your female climbing partners size them, compared to their street size and maybe another climbing shoe.? I wear katanas in a 40. Women’s scarpa velocity in a 41, as they fit smaller and the men’s scarpa vs I tried in a 40 which fit, but I could even get a 40.5. I have a slim foot wth low volume so the guys shoes are at times too wide for me.
Cheers

Not Mark, but have a couple female friends who use the VSR. My friends who have them went one euro down from their street shoe size. From their solutions that was a half size larger for and and one size larger for the other. 

Lani Rule wrote:

Hey Mark Orsag, 

I’m also female and am thinking of getting these online (they don’t sell them to try on In Australia) how did your female climbing partners size them, compared to their street size and maybe another climbing shoe.? I wear katanas in a 40. Women’s scarpa velocity in a 41, as they fit smaller and the men’s scarpa vs I tried in a 40 which fit, but I could even get a 40.5. I have a slim foot wth low volume so the guys shoes are at times too wide for me.
Cheers

Not Mark nor female, but I have both the VS and VSR and I sized them the same. Both before and after the break-in period I haven’t noticed any differences in fit, so if a size 40 VS fits well, the same size in the VSR will likely feel the same 

Lani Rule wrote:

Hey Mark Orsag, 

I’m also female and am thinking of getting these online (they don’t sell them to try on In Australia) how did your female climbing partners size them, compared to their street size and maybe another climbing shoe.? I wear katanas in a 40. Women’s scarpa velocity in a 41, as they fit smaller and the men’s scarpa vs I tried in a 40 which fit, but I could even get a 40.5. I have a slim foot wth low volume so the guys shoes are at times too wide for me.
CheersLani,

Lani,

Am Mark:)! And Nick's explanation fit exactly what my two friends did. I and they also find the VSRs surprisingly comfortable despite  the downsize and fairly aggressive design-- more comfortable than Skwama for sure.

Seems like the right place to add this question.  Does anyone know if Scarpa is planning to discontinue the instinct VS?  I get amazon cards for holidays, and usually use them when I need a new pair of shoes, but can’t find this VS in a 44.5.  That seems like an odd size to stop carrying

Baba Fats wrote: Seems like the right place to add this question.  Does anyone know if Scarpa is planning to discontinue the instinct VS?  I get amazon cards for holidays, and usually use them when I need a new pair of shoes, but can’t find this VS in a 44.5.  That seems like an odd size to stop carrying

Says they’re changing the VSR to the VS “women’s” for their Spring/Summer 2019 release, as well as other models, but that’s in addition to the VS. 

I recently had to replace some Instinct VS (out of town for a while, brought 2 right shoes, only thing a local hop had), which I've used for a long time on granite and edging. I have the Drago (2 gym pairs, 1 outdoor only pair), Furia S, Chimera, and a VS resoled with Grip 2.  I use the Dragos for ~75% of my climbing, the Furia for really overhung/powerful stuff, and the VS on anything with smaller feet. The rest get left in my closet.

With that said, would someone that is 6 foot 3 165lbs really find much use or difference in the VSR? I already have quite a few soft shoes so I figured I'd sell these newer VS and get them as an all arounder.  FWIW I mostly boulder with some sport here and there.

Baba Fats wrote: Seems like the right place to add this question.  Does anyone know if Scarpa is planning to discontinue the instinct VS?  I get amazon cards for holidays, and usually use them when I need a new pair of shoes, but can’t find this VS in a 44.5.  That seems like an odd size to stop carrying

I really doubt that.  They’re by far Scarpa’s most popular and successful non-beginner shoe aside from maybe Vapor V’s.

That being said, even REI had them on sale, so perhaps they’re planning a 2019 reboot.  I finally tried the Instinct.  It’s a very odd shoe...stiff rubber and toe, but split sole so they fair ok on the steeps.

Ted Pinson wrote:

I really doubt that.  They’re by far Scarpa’s most popular and successful non-beginner shoe aside from maybe Vapor V’s.

That being said, even REI had them on sale, so perhaps they’re planning a 2019 reboot.  I finally tried the Instinct.  It’s a very odd shoe...stiff rubber and toe, but split sole so they fair ok on the steeps.

How is this odd? It’s almost exactly what Solutions are and was designed by the same guy to be an updated Solition in feel. It’s great for small, precise edges while still having some flex and smearing ability. They soften up a ton when broken in too. My broken in pair made Hiangles feel like 2x4s

Didn’t know they were designed by the same guy as Solutions, but that totally makes sense.  The Solutions have Grip 2 rubber which IMO makes sense for that application, although the Instincts are slightly better for edging.

The Solutions have a stiffer rand, 4mm vs 3.5mm sole, and a slightly thicker reinforcement. The Instincts take a long time to break in, but will smear better even with Edge due to the shape and these features. I’ve never been able to tell much of a difference between my VS with Edge and the ones that I got resoled with Grip.

That’s actually why I posted my question above as I’m wondering if the VSR have anything different in the rand that I would notice.

Karsten Walker wrote: I recently had to replace some Instinct VS (out of town for a while, brought 2 right shoes, only thing a local hop had), which I've used for a long time on granite and edging. I have the Drago (2 gym pairs, 1 outdoor only pair), Furia S, Chimera, and a VS resoled with Grip 2.  I use the Dragos for ~75% of my climbing, the Furia for really overhung/powerful stuff, and the VS on anything with smaller feet. The rest get left in my closet.

With that said, would someone that is 6 foot 3 165lbs really find much use or difference in the VSR? I already have quite a few soft shoes so I figured I'd sell these newer VS and get them as an all arounder.  FWIW I mostly boulder with some sport here and there.

It’s geared toward a lighter climber for hard Bouldering and sport who wants a softer VS. I’m 5’6 130lb and it’s a perfect balance of softness and edging capability, with the ability to drive my power straight to the point of the shoe due that particular toe box style. It’s helped me increase foot/toe strength dramatically, yet doesn’t flop even on dime edges. 

That being said, I can’t fit into a softer Scarpa. The Drago and Chimera are like a square peg in a round hole with the toe box, but I’m curious on the Furia S...is it the same toebox as those two, wider, narrower? I’d like a softer shoe to have in my quiver. 

Furia S is slightly lower volume, not much narrower, but super asymmetric. For me that line fits the best of any shoe I've ever used, better than the Instinct.

Personally tho it's not a ton different than the Drago.

Sounds like at 165lbs the VS is still great for me. Thanks!

Karsten Walker wrote: Furia S is slightly lower volume, not much narrower, but super asymmetric. For me that line fits the best of any shoe I've ever used, better than the Instinct.

Personally tho it's not a ton different than the Drago.

Sounds like at 165lbs the VS is still great for me. Thanks!

Interesting. I fit like a glove in the VSR all the way to the point of the toe, but drago and chimera, literally all toes cram to the point with loads of airspace. I was thinking of trying the Furia S but not if it’s that narrow too

just wait it out the new vs are coming out in 2019

Karsten Walker wrote:

How is this odd? It’s almost exactly what Solutions are and was designed by the same guy to be an updated Solition in feel. It’s great for small, precise edges while still having some flex and smearing ability. They soften up a ton when broken in too. My broken in pair made Hiangles feel like 2x4s

Interesting that they're supposed to be an updated solution I massively prefer my solutions in every way and they feel like a way more refined shoe (apart from the disintegrating strap), I only just got them but I honestly think they might be the best shoe I've ever owned, while the vsr is just meh. 

Jack W wrote: just wait it out the new vs are coming out in 2019

Any info on these?