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Dock haul bag with munter mule overhand (MMO)?

Original Post
Will Irwin · · Washington, DC · Joined May 2018 · Points: 5

Traditionally, I've learned to dock my haul bag by tying a munter with the two strands of docking cord coming out of the bag, followed up by wrapping the strands around across and over each other a 5-7 times, and tying this off with a square knot...as demoed by Mark Hudon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWCZ6ahP60E&t=277s

But if I'm using strong enough docking cord, why couldn't I have one strand coming out of my bag and just use an MMO to dock the bag to my master point? This seems more efficient to me but I want to make sure there isn't a reason that this shouldn't be practiced.

Thanks! :)

Ryan Huetter · · Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 395

I tend to use a single piece of cord (old piece of half rope) to dock my bags, and use the MMO, though the Mule under load has a tendency to put a twist in the rope and can sometimes be a big pain to pop. The method mark shows, or the Mariner's hitch, for instance, doesn't have that potential. I have only found it to be an issue with a REALLY heavy load, and have had to work hard to pop the mule.

NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40

Can I dovetail and ask why people suggest backing up the docking cord with another attachment?

Is it because the consequences of dropping the bag on the leader's ass or another party's face are so severe, or is it because of a risk of accidentally untying it?

Jake wander · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 195

i do the single strand with MMO and havent had any issues, but ive also never carried a bag with enough gear for 4 nights. in the end, its backed up with the haul line to the anchor. so its not like youd lose the bag or anything.

Fail Falling · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 916
Everett wrote: Can I dovetail and ask why people suggest backing up the docking cord with another attachment?

Is it because the consequences of dropping the bag on the leader's ass or another party's face are so severe, or is it because of a risk of accidentally untying it?

Generalized fear of a MMO is the only reason why I can think of. No one has ever given a good reason besides "why wouldn't you back it up bro? I don't back it up when I make it but generally add a backup while I'm belaying my leader because i'm bored and "why not bro?" 

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

I started using it when I saw a photo of what I thought it was on one of Pete’s systems. My technique ended up being simpler and as safe as his.
With my technique, in more the a dozen walls with bags of all sorts of weight, it has NEVER taken any effort at all to untie. The single strand Munter with a tie-off can slip and become difficult to untie. Using two cords is in no way due to strength concerns.
On every wall I’ve done in the last 10 years, I or we, have had two bags. I always dock each bag to its own bolt. This serves to separate the bags, making them easier to access and with each having a docking cord, one backs up the other.
Ultimately, use a system that you are comfortable with and is foolproof. My system is completely foolproof, there is no way you can every forget any part of it and hose yourself. 

NegativeK · · Nevada · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 40
Mark Hudon wrote: with each having a docking cord, one backs up the other.

Hell yeah. I was wondering if we were being too casual by not backing it up, but that just points out that we don't have to care.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

For what's it's worth. I put a mmo on one strand and a clove on the other as a back up, not because of concerns over strength, but over my own stupidity. 

Kristoffer Wickstrom · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 51

back it up, there is nothing else to it. 

Mydans · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 70

I have always used a single MMO to dock my bags but I always back it up with a clove hitch on the haul line to the anchor.  I'm not really worried that the MMO will come untied but I feel the clove hitch makes sure that the bag is attached at 2 points (redundant) and its easy to tie and untie since the bags weight is resting on the MMO.  It might be overkill but I don't want there to be any way I could drop a haul bag.

Stephen Felker · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 552
Will Irwin wrote:...dock my haul bag by tying a munter with the two strands of docking cord coming out of the bag, followed up by wrapping the strands around across and over each other a 5-7 times, and tying this off with a square knot...

aka Chongo knot

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Just for historical context, the drawing I saw (thought I saw) is different than what Stephen (above) calls a Chongo knot, I could easily be wrong.

It was similar to my method but one side of the cord was far shorter than the other. The long side was run up to the anchor, tied with a Munter and then barber polled down itself till a square not could be tied with the shorter end.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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