Why aren't more climbers using rabbit runners for anchor building, etc.?

I love the versatility of my (11 foot) rabbit runner and is one of my go to pieces of gear for building an anchor on trad routes.  When I discussed possibly purchasing a different size with a sales person she said no one really buys them anymore...what gives?  Anyone else like the rabbit runners or can advise on why they aren't popular?  Thanks!

my wife uses a rabbit runner quite a bit.  i hate the thing.  when she uses for a TR anchor it takes an hour to undo the tight ass knots.  when she uses it at a hanging belay on multipitch it takes an hour to undo the tight ass knots.  it doesn't serve multiple purposes very effectively compared to using a couple slings.  i see a few folks using these weird small rabbit runners as slings, but i am not a huge fan.  they are just kind of weird.

I use them but not for anchors usually.

Don't really see the purpose over a regular sling Imo and decrease utility.

s.price wrote: Rabbit. Tasty.

Glad I'm not the only one craving hasenpfeffer!

I like carrying 1-2 shoulder length rabbit runners, especially when alpine style climbing with a pack. They are convenient to unclip from over or underneath a backpack providing double length extension or a single length when clipped as a loop. None of partners use them when they get racked but I do most pitches.

Another thing I notice is that rabbit runners tend to keep biners more aligned with the rope. Standard slings seem more likely to become unpredictable in a fall, especially when gear rips. That's why I also prefer long draws to alpine slings. A mix of draws, alpine slings and rabbit runners works the best for me.

brenwi wrote: I love the versatility of my (11 foot) rabbit runner and is one of my go to pieces of gear for building an anchor on trad routes.  When I discussed possibly purchasing a different size with a sales person she said no one really buys them anymore...what gives?  Anyone else like the rabbit runners or can advise on why they aren't popular?  Thanks!

Yer gonna die.

Because why would I want something that is designed to only have 2 anchor points when I normally have 3 pieces for my anchor and can use a single piece instead of needing 2 of the rabbit runners and give a less balanced anchor.

For anchors I normally use the rope.  No additional equipment necessary. Big plus, plus big pluses for the other advantages as discussed elsewhere.

For times where a rabbit runner could be used I just use regular slings.  I have a bunch they normally reside tied in an alpine draw.

slim wrote: my wife uses a rabbit runner quite a bit.  i hate the thing.  when she uses for a TR anchor it takes an hour to undo the tight ass knots.  when she uses it at a hanging belay on multipitch it takes an hour to undo the tight ass knots.  it doesn't serve multiple purposes very effectively compared to using a couple slings.  i see a few folks using these weird small rabbit runners as slings, but i am not a huge fan.  they are just kind of weird.

You could suggest that she use the bowline-on-a-bight instead, since it remains easy to undo after loading.

Tim Meehan wrote: It's pretty common for people to make a rabbit runner out of their cordelette when their belay anchor pieces are fairly spread out. You take the knot out that makes the cordelette into a loop, and then put a figure 8 or overhand on a bight on each free end.

I've been using a 7-8mm open cordelette for over a year now, pretty happy with the flexibility it offers.

It just looks like an extra piece of gear I have to carry when I already have slings and the rope. I imagine that's why more people aren't using them.

I just bought for this season, the Mountain Tools Webolette for making trad anchors. Two 10', and one 14'. In hindsight, the 10' Bluewater ones linked above would have been cheaper. I haven't been able to use them yet outside as Spring is not here yet, but Mountain Tools claims they unknot easier than old school 7 or 8mm cordelette. If they do cause problems with undoing the master point knot, I'll just throw a carabiner into the top of the figure 8 knot.

My understanding is that the main things that keep rabbit runners for building  anchors from being more popular is they are more expensive than cordelette, are not commonly taught, and the concern that the legs in a horizontal crack anchor are not sharing the load very equally despite each leg being roughly the same length, due to the leg with two strands taking more of it, and probably even more so in a vertical crack if the leg with doubled material is the shortest leg. Although I believe one could somewhat mitigate the vertical crack problem by making the longest leg the doubled strand one if you felt it was an issue.

To go into more detail... In my area I've only ever seen people use cordelette, and it is what I was taught with. Only once have I seen some one that ties it in a loop with a flemish bend/figure 8 bend for potentially easily untying it to make a rabbit runner or to leave it as a bail anchor material from it for more versatility. Here on mountain project there is also a very vocal group of people who believe rope anchors are the best way to go. I personally feel it is a little over kill. As long as the belayer for the next pitch is clove hitched into the anchor with the climbing rope you've got your dynamic element needed for factor two falls. Depending on the style of rope anchor, some are not even completely load sharing for the third piece which would have extension if the first two pieces pulled. Regarding the unequal sharing of the load from the leg that has two strands... You also get this from a looped cordelette anchor in a vertical crack where the shortest leg takes the majority of the load and each other leg that is longer taking less and less. I don't see this as much different. We've eliminated extension, which as long as the three pieces are solid and full strength in good quality rock, it should be fine. Unfortunately, this is discussion in itself is bound to create an utter shit storm of disagreement here on mountainproject. Which could also be another reason why not many people use them, or don't admit to using them, as some people here want to shout down others for not doing things the way they do them rather than gently and politely stating their concerns and disagreements.

I chose to buy the Webolettes because dealing with the knot in the looped cordelette was too time consuming when it ended up where I want to tie the master point knot for an anchor, and for the second folding it back up was time consuming. So far in my casual playing around with them in my home, it seems they will work beautifully for what I want.

Tim Meehan wrote: It's pretty common for people to make a rabbit runner out of their cordelette when their belay anchor pieces are fairly spread out. You take the knot out that makes the cordelette into a loop, and then put a figure 8 or overhand on a bight on each free end.

I like this setup.  It's easy to go back and forth between the rabbit and a loop too, by throwing a biner to link the two ends without having to redo the knot.  Good versatility.  

Over time, I have settled on using a 5.5mm tech cordelette tied with two eyes. Which is basically a long tech cord rabbit runner. I would probably use more rabbit runners if someone made them in various sizes from 8mm dyneema webbing. Maybe someone does and I just don't know about it.

Ryan Pfleger wrote: Over time, I have settled on using a 5.5mm tech cordelette tied with two eyes. Which is basically a long tech cord rabbit runner. I would probably use more rabbit runners if someone made them in various sizes from 8mm dyneema webbing. Maybe someone does and I just don't know about it.

Black Diamond now makes a rabbit runner (not 8mm) it's 13mm.  It is really hard to get a full strength single strand at 8mm... 

I've been happy with my metolius equalizer (long rabbit runner with built in pouch) for trad anchors. Probly gonna die tho tbh

Just Free Solo Bro

The main downside that kept me away from using them for slings is that they don't coil up into a shorter alpine draw nicely like a 60cm sling. You can do a similar pass-through-the-carabiner thing with a rabbit runner, but then when you want to fully extend it, you can't just clip to any loop, you have to clip the carabiner to the sewn eyelet at the end. So you end up either having these super long slings hanging off you, or settling for a shorter sling.

A very long rabbit runner can be used to build anchors, but a tech cord with pretied figure 8 follow throughs at the end can be used in exactly the same way, and is much more UV and abrasion resistant. I also find the tech cord easier to tie knots in because it's round.

The reason they aren't used is that there are better options for building your anchor starting with the climbing rope.