Hand- and footholds confidence issue

I recently started top roping and lead climbing (LC not so much as TR) after 6 months of indoor bouldering and having no previous climbing experience whatsoever. So far, one thing that kinda bothers me (besides fear of falling or piece of gear failing) is when reaching for handholds I have no idea what to expect in terms of quality (awesome jug or pocket or not so good crimp) which kinda blocks me while climbing. Alternatively, when stepping on tiny footholds I have no confidence I will actually stay on my foot. 

And those are moments when my fear of falling kicks in and I start panicking inside so I just lock in as my energy drains since I am not used to it. I mean, in a bouldering gym you know exactly what to expect from every hand- and foothold.

So, shall this too pass or is there anything I could do to gain confidence?

Why are you afraid to fall? If it's because your gear is suspect, then you are climbing too hard too soon. There's a good bit of advice for new leaders: "Push your gear, or your climbing, but never at the same time." So if the holds are dodgy, you'd better be darn sure you have something bombproof to catch you.  Conversely if you're dicking in wonky bits here and there, you'd best be on something 5.RealEasyForYou.  OTOH if this is an irrational fear, read all the good threads on practice falls to get a handle on your fearful side.

Gunkiemike wrote:

Why are you afraid to fall? If it's because your gear is suspect, then you are climbing too hard too soon. There's a good bit of advice for new leaders: "Push your gear, or your climbing, but never at the same time." So if the holds are dodgy, you'd better be darn sure you have something bombproof to catch you.  Conversely if you're dicking in wonky bits here and there, you'd best be on something 5.RealEasyForYou.  OTOH if this is an irrational fear, read all the good threads on practice falls to get a handle on your fearful side.

I climbed bolted sport routes and used either brand new gear or gear in very good condition but I dunno...in some moments I caught my self thinking "there is no way I can stand on that tiny piece of rock" even though I climb in one of the best edging shoes. After steping on a nice ledge and reaching something for which I hoped is a jug and ended up being a shallow pocket or a sloper my initial reaction is "oh shit, i won't hold this for very long". that was all on TR.

So sometimes handholds and footholds don't feel solid? Welcome to rock climbing!

FrankPS wrote:

So sometimes handhelds and foothold don't feel solid? Welcome to rock climbing!

Cmon dude, you can do better than that.

B SK wrote:

Cmon dude, you can do better than that.

No, actually, that's about all there is to it.  You have a completely irrational fear, and the only thing you can do is learn to get over it.  Yes, additional outdoor mileage will help you learn what you can stick to, but you are on TR, there is absolutely no consequence associated with falling, so who cares?  Just try stuff, fall off of stuff, and eventually you will learn.

What do you like about climbing?

B, you had it right in your post: this too shall pass.  Lacking confidence in wee feet is something everyone feels sometime, and often again on a new rock type, or at the start of a season, or just 'cause.  Toproping is an awesome way to get through it.  Keep your hips in.  Bounce on your feet.  Wait while your sloper hands grease off to find how long you have on those holds.  

Climbing plastic and climbing rock are different things, bouldering and climbing a route are different things.  Give yourself some time to learn this new sport and build your confidence.

When you get back to the gym in the fall you'll be annoyed that you have to put your feet where the setter decided to put the holds, instead of you being able to smear in good place for you.  Outdoor climbing is generally more about your feet than indoors.

What Frank said is spot on (and it didn't come off as snarky or anything, at least to me), as well as what the other posters have said.

It IS something that will pass for the most part, but there is always a bit of the unknown in climbing. If that's what draws you to climbing (great question from poster Tomily ma!) then it's not something to fear, just something that is part of the experience and embraced. Why would you want to know in advance what every hold is like? It would quickly be kind of boring!

Four points in addition/expansion to those made above: 1) Experience will help. When you first began bouldering in the gym, you probably had this exact same experience, but as you recognized the types and shapes of the hold, you quickly forgot about that aspect. You'll begin to recognize different rock shapes outside as well (though never with that same certainty). You'll know that an area tends to feature certain types of holds and will come to have some confidence in what to expect. Again, never as much as the gym, but at least to some extent. Experience will also help you in gaining confidence in the advice I heard most often as a beginner (and still occasionally hear)  "Just stand up!". Do that, and if you fall...then so what? Falling is not failure, it is a learning experience. See Gunkie Mike's post above...read it, then read it again!...toproping is a time to push your comfort limits. It is a time to take "chances". I'm tempted to say, "What's the worst that can happen? So what if you fall on toprope?", but really, a better attitude might be "The worst thing that can happen is that you get to the top of every climb without falling!"

2) Climb with your eyes. Look at the climb from below. Look at the rock, the features, study them as much as you can. Do the same during the climb. Watch your feet go onto a hold. Don't constantly reach for holds at the tip of your reach as you won't get the best view of the hold. Another way to climb with your eyes is just to simply watch others climb the route. Are they leaning with their arms/legs into/away from a hold at a certain angle? Then you can probably read into that where that hold is best.

3) This is a question of mental attitude. Read Rock Warriors Way or another book on the mental aspect of climbing. The rock is just there...it doesn't care whether you get up it or not. You don't conquer the rock, you only conquer yourself and what you previously viewed as your limitations whether physical or mental. Think about Tomily Ma posted, answer that, and combine it with some thoughts inspired by reading RWW.

4) Climb with supportive people. Find people you trust (trust to catch you, trust to push you but not too hard too quickly), have fun with, and support you, and in return provide them with that same outlook and attitude.

One more general note not really related to your question (so this is not #5:) But if you fill out your profile a bit more, you may get answers better suited to you. Age, other sports experiences,  and even where you generally climb might help in formulating more specific advice, and you may even meet someone that is willing to help in person!

Have fun!

Climb more

As you climb more you will begin to identify the quality of hand and foot holds visually. Slab climbing will really help you learn how to read footholds, and you'll discover that you can stand on things that are much much smaller than you expected.

It's all about mileage for reading the rock, and unfortunately it helps on ton if you don't begin climbing in a gym. When you start out climbing outside, your skill in reading the rock progresses at around the same speed as your grades. When you start at a gym, it takes you that much longer to develop the skill of reading the rock, despite being strong enough to climb really hard routes. 

If you don't trust your feet your shoes may be an issue.  Consider an upgrade.  As far as moving up, reaching up, stepping up, is concerned remind yourself of the climbs grade an remember the move is no harder than grade.  Its scary not knowing what to expect so remind yourself to expect it to be no harder that the grade of the climb.  Something like this " I don't know whats up there but I know that its no harder than 5.x and I am solid at that grade."

eli poss wrote:

It's all about mileage for reading the rock, and unfortunately it helps on ton if you don't begin climbing in a gym. When you start out climbing outside, your skill in reading the rock progresses at around the same speed as your grades. When you start at a gym, it takes you that much longer to develop the skill of reading the rock, despite being strong enough to climb really hard routes. 

This is a really good point. When I first started I would Boulder a lot indoors and it would help with certain stances and moves that were strenous but I always found I struggled at reading the routes outside. I would get humbled  Everytime I climbed outside because I'd get stuck trying to find holds and waste energy. 

I actually found top roping a route that had movements or Crux sections that stumped me or I struggled with we're good to practice on. I would climb the route and lower down below the difficult sections and climb up and through them over and over. This not only helped with my reading of the route but with experience and familiarity of the route finding and utilizing the holds and movements as well as committing to moves where I wasn't sure of the next holds being there or good. Once I gained that familiarity and experience I found myself climbing way more confidently and was able to utilize the strengths I had built up from bouldering indoors.

Thank you guys, there are some really good tips and advices. My gym bouldering was all about dyno moves and feet-follow-hands boulders which is I guess OK when you know exactly what to expect out of a hold. On a real rock not so much which means I need to work on my lock off strength and learn how to climb using static and tiny footwork moves since I truly started to realize importance of feet. As for feet-follow-hands boulders footholds never seemed to be an issue because IMO if it is good for a hand placement, it is more than good for a foot placement. So yeah, climbing on a real rock was kinda soul crushing and devastating because holds in the gym were so obvious and I had so much fun doing it but yesterday it felt like a really hard work and not fun at all. I mean, I had a 5.10a send but aesthetically it had to be one of the worst sends ever :)

In the meantime I will try to do more sub5.10 routes and traversing just to get the image of what will hold, what won't and what is in between and also to gain feet precision (since I suck at it). As for the shoes, I climb in La Sportiva Miura VS 1.5ish smaller than my street shoes (very snug yet not painfu) so I do not think that shoes are an issue here.

So once again, thanks for your support and advices :)

When a foot hold feels very shitty I tended to avoid putting pressure on that foot. That's completely backwards. I now know to really put weight on a foothold. Move my body over that foot, press even harder onto it. When I do these halfass foot jabs with hardly any weight on it, no wonder when the foot skates off.

Kees van der Heiden wrote:

When a foot hold feels very shitty I tended to avoid putting pressure on that foot. That's completely backwards. I now know to really put weight on a foothold. Move my body over that foot, press even harder onto it. When I do these halfass foot jabs with hardly any weight on it, no wonder when the foot skates off.

thanks, I will definitely try to do that, especially on a traverse wall

Some words to live by, I hope I get it correct.....

“We, I, decided to see just what would happen if I held on and tried really hard, and let gravity yank the holds from my hands” 

Royal Robbins 

Hey guys, I just want to share that yesterday i sent (redpoint) the 5.10a route which 2 weeks ago actually made me doubt and think do I even want to climb anymore.

Anyhow, the game changer for me was the Rock Warriors Way and realizing the importance of good (or at least decent) footwork ie. climbing in small increments.

So, once again thank you all for the positive feedback. :)

Climb outside a lot. Moderate routes ratings so you can stay in control (almost) all the time. Look at your feet placements. All feet placements should be concious and precise. Once you place your foot immediately stand on it transferring as much weight as possible to the foot just placed. Develop an "at least two feet moves per hand move" pattern. Develop a "hand move when standing on both feet" pattern. Develop a "hand move initiates by heels" pattern (do not reach that hold, instead stand up on your feet and playfully move your hand from one hold to another). Develop a "do not freeze in an extended position" pattern (once you grab a handhold immediately look down and make two or three, or four small footsteps to engage your core and legs muscles). Later you will learn how and when break those patterns. Learn how to climb fast with like perfect moves execution (hint: slow is smooth smooth is fast, fast climbing is smooth climbing with no freezes).

Climb outside a lot. Prefer slabs to any other terrain long enough to acquire basic climbing technique.

djh860 wrote:

If you don't trust your feet your shoes may be an issue.  Consider an upgrade.  As far as moving up, reaching up, stepping up, is concerned remind yourself of the climbs grade an remember the move is no harder than grade.  Its scary not knowing what to expect so remind yourself to expect it to be no harder that the grade of the climb.  Something like this " I don't know whats up there but I know that its no harder than 5.x and I am solid at that grade."

This.

The grade you are climbing will tell you what quality of hold you should be looking for.  The hold is there.  If you can find it before stepping up blindly, then you should be able to anticipate what it is going to be by what it looks like below and what grade you are on.

Confidence is difficult to build.  I still wuss out on lead all the time and I have been climbing for far too long for that to still be a thing.

~ Gabe