Advice/critique on layering for Baker in early July

Hey all, I’m heading to Baker in early July for a 6 day mountaineering course and would like to get some advice on layering properly for the conditions. I have plenty of 3-season hiking experience, but not much summertime PNW big mountain experience, so unfamiliar with what range of conditions and temperatures to plan for over the period.

I was thinking the following layering system, but happy to hear suggestions on this.

- Base layer: Icebreaker Sphere Hoodie - wool blend with hood, should be good for both sunny or cool days

- Mid layer: OR Radiant LT Pullover - no hood, grid fleece

- Soft shell: Rab Torque, hooded

- Hard shell: Marmot Minimalist

- Puffy: Patagonia Hyper Puff Hoodie (not the Parka).

- Legs will be lightweight wool base, softshell, hard shell - not so concerned about this.

How does this system sound for Baker at that time of year? Anything off base here? I tend to run cold, particularly when not moving, so I’ll likely throw in a lightweight wool blend undershirt in case of particularly cold days (summit or camp).

I’d also be interested to know if this system would flexible enough to add another piece for a summer Rainier climb - say a 60g/m2 synthetic or lightweight down under the hyper puff? The only potential challenge I see there is the layering under the hyper puff - it’s surprisingly form fitting for a puffy jacket...

That time of year you want light colored base layers otherwise you apt to cook when wearing just it. You will not need both a hard and soft shell. 

I would not have a hoodie as base laver. Just a light long sleeve shirt.

Ditto everything Allen said. I was there mid-to-late July and it got pretty hot. Make sure your base layer is light colored so it can double as a sun shirt. For pants, I suggest just soft shell and hard shell, no wool base layer. But then again, I tend to run hot. Have some sun coverage for your face and neck, as the sun reflecting off the snow could fry you good.

Agree with everyone, make sure your base layer doubles as a sun layer (I'm a fan of the Patagonia Sunshade) and that you account for face, neck and hand sun protection (OR ActiveIce is great, I use the hat with the floppy things, the tube and the gloves). If it's sunny, you'll bake on the snow.

Check the weather before you pull the trigger but I would only bring softshell pants (no baselayer or shell) and not bring your softshell jacket. In return for the saved weight, you might consider bringing some lightweight puffy pants. This is not something that I would bring on a climb of Baker, but since you are up there with a class (where more downtime could be expected) and tend to run cold, the extra warmth in camp might not go amiss.

I would bring much of the same for a fair weather summer climb of Rainier.

Thanks for the tips everyone. Seems like it will be warmer than I anticipated and sun protection will just as critical.

For the baselayer, I was planning on using the Icebreaker Sphere Hoodie as both a baselayer and sun shirt. It’s a lightweight thin wool blend long sleeve shirt with hood, something similar to other sunshirt hoodies I think? ( icebreaker.com/en/mens-swea…). The reason I was thinking hoodie for this layer is so I can keep the sun off my neck on hot days, which is more difficult with a hoodless long sleeve shirt. Then I can also run with a hoodless fleece midlayer for cooler days and still have some extra warmth around the head. Are there advantages that a hoodless long sleeve shirt would offer instead?

I definitely agree that both a hard shell and soft shell is overkill for a good weather forecast. I suspect the group I’m going with might require us to bring them both.

That icebreaker hoodie looks good (great if you got the lighter of the two colors). Agree on your last point about hard shells being required for the class. I suspect it’s because you’ll be sliding around on all fours during lessons on self arrest. If you do crevasse rescue, it could be very wet inside the crevasse, especially if it’s sunny/hot outside.  

On the other hand, if you don’t mind having soggy soft shells after a day of lessons, if you think you’ll be able to keep out the wind, if you’re ok with getting a minor tongue lashing from your guides, AND if the forecast looks good, then probably ok to leave hardshells at home. (Lots of if’s...)

EDIT: if you’re feet get cold easily, consider packing some hand/feet warmers for them. That was a problem for a few people in my group, despite the generally warm temps we had. 

This advice that you're going to cook is...PNW inexperience. Yes, you might cook. You might also be stuck in the middle of a snow storm in July freezing your ass off. Both happen regularly. You're taking a course, which means you will not be moving very far each day, especially if you're taking the class to summit Baker. Take everything. Experiment while you're up there. You'll be standing around in the snow all day going over self arrest and picket placement, I imagine with a day pack while most of your stuff is sitting at camp. Take everything you have so you can try out different combos. See what works and doesn't work. I have yet to meet a climber who doesn't have a system/combo/routine in the mountains which makes things easy to do and maximizes comfort. The only way you get that system down is by experience and experimenting.

Instead of a soft shell jacket try a super light wind shirt.  Patagonia  Houdini, Rab windveil, etc.  Most companies make a sub 4oz wind shirt. On a glacier you don’t need to worry as much about abrasion.  The wind shirt works great as your soft shell. 

Definitely pick up a Patagonia Sun Shade Hoody.

Nick Sweeney wrote:

Definitely pick up a Patagonia Sun Shade Hoody.

For the love of God listen to this man.  Grew up in Texas and did not know what it meant to be hot till I got out on the lower Alaska range glacier wearing a bunch of black baselayers.    Sun hoodies are love, sun hoodies are life.    Imo skip the Patagonia one though and get the ex-officio.  Better coverage and venting. ( And I am a Patagonia fanboy).  You can bet your guides will all be wearing sun hoodies...   Which is usually a good sign you should be too!

Nick B wrote:

For the love of God listen to this man.  Grew up in Texas and did not know what it meant to be hot till I got out on the lower Alaska range glacier wearing a bunch of black baselayers.    Sun hoodies are love, sun hoodies are life.    Imo skip the Patagonia one though and get the ex-officio.  Better coverage and venting. ( And I am a Patagonia fanboy).  You can bet your guides will all be wearing sun hoodies...   Which is usually a good sign you should be too!

Plus one for the exofficio hoody. Awesome face coverage. I have a couple of these and one Pata hoody that I wear in the alpine and also all day at work. 

mediocre wrote:

This advice that you're going to cook is...PNW inexperience. Yes, you might cook. You might also be stuck in the middle of a snow storm in July freezing your ass off. Both happen regularly. You're taking a course, which means you will not be moving very far each day, especially if you're taking the class to summit Baker. Take everything. Experiment while you're up there. You'll be standing around in the snow all day going over self arrest and picket placement, I imagine with a day pack while most of your stuff is sitting at camp. Take everything you have so you can try out different combos. See what works and doesn't work. I have yet to meet a climber who doesn't have a system/combo/routine in the mountains which makes things easy to do and maximizes comfort. The only way you get that system down is by experience and experimenting.

Ditto what he said. If the weather is bad  you may find you’re self wanting a heavier puffy for a course where u are stading around a lot. 

mediocre wrote:

This advice that you're going to cook is...PNW inexperience. Yes, you might cook. You might also be stuck in the middle of a snow storm in July freezing your ass off. 

Not really as it relates to wearing just the base layer. When it is hot out and one is wearing just their base layer having it be light colored is helpful so not to cook. If is crap weather it does not mater the color cause one will be wearing something over it. So given the choice - get a light colored base layer. That comes from 40 years of PNW experience.

Thanks for the advice and opinions. Really helpful.

Mediocre - good point on trying out different combos and seeing what works. Will definitely experiment with different combos throughout the course.

Fan - agree with the lots of ifs. Seems wise to take mediocre’s advice and try different combos on a trip like this.

Nick/Nick/Ian - do you think the pata/ex-Officio options would be better than the light colored Icebreaker sphere hoodie? Based on the fabric, fit, coolness or other factors?

Allen - your point makes good sense - will definitely be using light colors, especially for the base layers.

I like to add a sun buff as I find it covers my face neck and ears better than a hoodie. Lots of solar radiation being reflected not just what's coming directly from the sun.

Light vs Dark colors in the sun is actually more controversial than most are aware. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/283373a0

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1886/does-black-clothing-keep-you-cooler/

It's more complex than "black gets hot in the sun and white reflects the sun". Black can absorb your own body heat while white can reflect your own heat back at you. Similar to why emergency blankets are silver reflective inside. Testing tends to show either little/no difference or black actually leading to lower skin temps if clothing is loose and there is any sort of breeze. Even if your black shirt feels hot in the sun, if it is loose, that heat will usually be convected away without making you hot. Like Bedouin in loose black robes in the desert. 

In real world variable conditions, the color of your clothing likely has little predictable effect on skin temperature. It likely depends on how sunny it is, the actual air temperature, how much you're moving, how much you're sweating, humidity, wind, and the clothing material, construction, color, and fit.