Aramid slings for climbing

I was poking around on Barrabes yesterday and noticed Edelrid sells rated 6mm aramid slings in 60 and 120cm lengths. Has anyone tried these?

http://www.barrabes.com/en/edelrid-aramid-sling-6-mm-x/p-40331

Thought about getting some in my next order just for fun and trying them out but I know literally nothing about them.

I had a couple of the 60cm slings when they were still prototypes so not sure if they have changed for production. 

They are very stiff and don’t sit over your shoulder very well or have a very good handle.  They do feel extremely abrasion resistant though.  I think they would be a good choice for slinging horns on rough rock or using as a thread on rocks.  Since they are so stiff you can feed them behind pinches much easier than a dyneema sling.

could be worth having one or two on the rack but I wouldn’t want a whole rack of them.

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

I had a couple of the 60cm slings when they were still prototypes so not sure if they have changed for production. 

They are very stiff and don’t sit over your shoulder very well or have a very good handle.  They do feel extremely abrasion resistant though.  I think they would be a good choice for slinging horns on rough rock or using as a thread on rocks.  Since they are so stiff you can feed them behind pinches much easier than a dyneema sling.

could be worth having one or two on the rack but I wouldn’t want a whole rack of them.

According to either reviews or description on barrabes they are still pretty stiff. I was thinking of using them around hinky trad placements or for when anchors are behind a ledge and the MP needs to be extended over a ledge to spare the rope.

Aramid also has "fatigue" issues with repeated bending/knot, you can't cut them with your knife.

I think think this may be why they haven't gained popularity after the early 90s.

I don't get it tbh, uhmwpe is superior to aramid in pretty much every way but heat resistance which would be solved through the use of the nylon sheath. 

Kevlar cord (and slings) are far better for poking through threads as it´s stiffer.

I have two of these for slinging chocks, threads, and horns. The abrasion-resistance is comforting on sharp rock, and the stiffness makes it good for threading through small spaces. They can obviously be used as a normal sling in a pinch but the stiffness makes that awkward enough that it wouldn't be my first choice. I think of these more like another piece of pro (like a cam or a nut) than a sling.

In the late '80s or so, Chouinard Equipment came out with Kevlar cord, which was relatively strong and lightweight, for slinging Stoppers and Hexes. Some people complained that the brittle aramid "fiber" broke down and disintegrated into powder after lots of bending and flexing. Complaints about Kevlar-cord breakdown also resulted from sailing applications. Chouinard Equipment, and perhaps BD, eventually dropped Kevlar cord and replaced it with Gemini cord, which combined aramid and Spectra. Anyway, I would use aramid ONLY if it is new. If not, I wouldn't trust it. Edit: Inspecting the core is impossible without cutting away the nylon sheath. 

If the core is either Kevlar or Technora there would be a problem with self abrading.  But if it is Vectran, which is more like dyneema, it doesn't self abrade.  I couldn't find it on Edelrid's website, so don't have a list of its ingredients.

Brocky wrote:

If the core is either Kevlar or Technora there would be a problem with self abrading.  But if it is Vectran, which is more like dyneema, it doesn't self abrade.  I couldn't find it on Edelrid's website, so don't have a list of its ingredients.

Vectran still has self abrading properties just significantly better than other aramids. Dyneema, nylon and polyester don't suffer from this. 

I couldn’t figure out what anyone would use these until I watched the video “Should you change the way your belay?” I now use a 120cm Aramid sling to set up all my belays (regardless of whether I am direct belaying the leader) when I’m off the ground.
Here’s the setup:

I leave the bowline on a bight tied all the time and sling the rig over my shoulder bandolier-style. The pink rope is my tie-in rope but, since most Americans are freaked out about equalization you can also extend the the amount of rope you have between the two bolts and set up an quad EQ point.

For rappelling i girth hitch the open loop to my belay loop, clove a rappel extension point about a foot out and then use the bowline on a bight as my tether.
If you’re freaked about the rumors of Aramid suffering from flex-failing, replace it once in a while. 
Here’s another detailed explanation from the ACMG: Fixed Point Belay NOTE: I prefer the bowline on a bight because, #1-It can handle both a ring load and a  direct load and #2-I just leave it tied all the time because I use it on every pitch.
CLimb safe,
Mal

Malcolm, asking in earnest . . . saw your earlier post on this and followed the links. Couldn't you accomplish the same thing with a butterfly knot and a clove hitch on the rope?

[Edit: See Malcom Daly and Coppolillo’s critique of this rig below]

Andy Wiesner wrote: Malcolm, asking in earnest . . . saw your earlier post on this and followed the links. Couldn't you accomplish the same thing with a butterfly knot and a clove hitch on the rope?

That would work, too.  If you’re going to use the butterfly loop for a direct lead belay you’d have to capsize that knot so it’s suitable for ring-loading. I don’t think you can have it both ways. I also like having the sling to use for rappelling. 

Malcolm, that is a cool system.  Curious if and how you incorporate it into gear anchors?

Daniel Chambo wrote: Malcolm, that is a cool system.  Curious if and how you incorporate it into gear anchors?

Daniel, the system I described is ideal for bolted anchors and fixed point belays. For traditional anchors a lot of other things come into play so it’s best to incorporate this into your anchor building as you would a quad.

climb safe,Mal

Technora has some attraction for added friction and cut resistance. With some coating it does much better with UV resistance.

Edelrid is putting some in the sheath of their 8.9 protect pro dry dynamic rope. Many higher end sailing ropes use it for abrasion resistance. Having recently core shot a half rope on a rap, I wonder how it would have fared with a bit of technora in the sheath.

Sometimes having tensioned ropes moving around near dyneema slings can be disconcerting. Accessory cord for quads, cordellette instead of dyneema is cheaper than something with technora, for sure, and is pretty good.

"... But what if"
Is what I consider these slings to be generally made for.
Super sharp pinch point, sharp small holes to thread, a sharp edge to extend over, friction hitches for more supple aramid cords (hollowblock, vt prusik), where your worried about rope friction against a tensioned sling or cord, etc... where you want more piece of mind...

I have a few. I have not used them much yet. Seems like a tool similar to a DMM Revolver carabiner. Useful in some situations, but you can certainly go without. The fixed point belay rig is a good possible use if your ok with the difficulty of clove hitching the stiff cord and the bulky seen and covered area.

I wish there was a thin very supple strong enough cord for that kind of thing with some technora in the sheath, but perhaps nylon or polyester core. Better handling and abrasion resistance without concerns of knotting flex fatiguing the core.

Kind of wonder why technora or technora blended webbing is not more common.

Getting back to technora core cords... I have an old spool of some that has a pretty much parallel core. However Sterling 5.9 power cord has a hollow braid core, meaning the core is splicable. May be hard to incorporate the sheath into splices with how tight it is, but who knows. I'm not sure of Edelrids construction, but they will or are selling by the spool as well. Basically spliced instead of sewn slings should be possible to have a less bulky join point, but may not be worth the struggle with the sheath and certainly not worth the time/cost trade off vs sewn or they would already be doing it.

I have a 60 cm and a 120 cm Edelrid sling.  I have no problem carrying them over the shoulder.  My other slings are all dyneema dental floss, and I like having the Edelrid slings for threads and slinging things, as they are far more abrasion-resistant than my dyneema alpine draw material.  Perhaps by virtue of my old-school background, I find a fair number of opportunities to thread slings, and wrestling with super-flexible dyneema is a huge pain, especially when getting pumped.  The Edelrid slings are stiff enough to just stick them around and through no problem at all.  In most constrictions I can place them as quickly as a cam.  Slings threaded through constrictions don't lift or walk, and so make excellent first pieces where bottom-up zippering is a concern.   For protection, the 60 cm works best,  but for belay anchors  and big features, the 120 cm sling is handy.  I'd forgotten about the self-abrasion issues with Kevlar, so I guess the aramid slings need to be retired reasonably often...

Travis O'Neil wrote
I wish there was a thin very supple strong enough cord for that kind of thing with some technora in the sheath, but perhaps nylon or polyester core. Better handling and abrasion resistance without concerns of knotting flex fatiguing the core.

Kind of wonder why technora or technora blended webbing is not more common.

Poor abrasion and UV resistance, that's why it's done the other way round.

one problem with rigging it the way you've shown, DC, with the yellow rope, is that the climber is still in the system....an upward pull will displace the belayer. the way Mal shows, you could belay off the bowline on a bight with a munter or plaquette, and in the event of a violent fall, the load doesn't involve the climber--no pulling him up or down. you can check out some testing on the ENSA video he references or look at the ACMG video on the topic, too. you could achieve a similar rigging as mal gets with the rope, but the way it's shown in this thread leaves the climber in the system....

Bluewater VT prusiks are technora sheath/nylon core.  Having a melt-resistant sheath is advantageous for friction hitches. I don’t know if the same cord is sold in bulk.