Going from flat to slightly more aggressive shoe

So I've been climbing for 4ish months or so and have been wearing Scarpa Force V in a 42.5 and they fit pretty good–slight toe curl. I wear a 10 in running shoes. They never hurt, but can be uncomfortable when standing around.

Being a diabetic, I have to take especially good care of my feet (I picked the wrong sport, huh?). I was looking at the Scarpa Vapor V. People say it has a nice wide toe box–which is great.It also has a synthetic toe box (noe stretch). I haven't had a chance to try them on yet, but do you think I would be okay with a 43? The 43 would be SLIGHTLY smaller than my runners, but not much. Would they get sloppy big? Also, going from a flat shoe to a slightly more aggressive shoe make a huge difference when sizing?

https://www.scarpa.com/DownloadPdf?dataResourceId=732132

Any thoughts or suggestion would be great! 

John Wilder wrote:

The vapor V would be my first choice for a scarpa shoe, but the best possible thing to do is to try on a handful of shoes at your local shop and get sized correctly- especially if taking care of your feet is a high priority. Don't go to REI or another big box- go to your local shop. Plan on spending at least an hour and try to go in the late afternoon if possible.

Thanks John, have you worn the Vapor V before? If so, how did you size them? When I bought my current Scarpas , I went to REI and tried on all sorts of brands, and Scarpa did seem consistently be the most comfortable.

i own two pairs of vapor V's, the newer and the older orange's. theyre my favorite shoe and my go to in most situations. i have a us 9 foot and wear a 42.5 and it fits like a glove. 

Brandon Ribblett wrote:

i own two pairs of vapor V's, the newer and the older orange's. theyre my favorite shoe and my go to in most situations. i have a us 9 foot and wear a 42.5 and it fits like a glove. 

Thanks, Brandon! Do they stretch at all? is a 42.5 sizing up then?

Pay 0 attention to how people size their street shoes, allot of people size their street shoes too small or too big. Just go to a store and try on as many shoes in as many sizes as possible.

The more aggressive the shoes the more you should down size don't even think about going up in size, the whole shoe is made to accommodate the same amount of foot in a smaller foot print, if you up size expect an extremely baggy fit around the toe box and heel. 

If you have only been climbing for 4 months you shouldn't even be thinking about getting a new pair of shoes, wear those force v's into the ground (if you can't see your toes keep going), your current footwork is likely terrible so buying a new expensive shoe is just going to trash them. 

It is really natural to assume that better shoes will make you climb better, and it is, true. Unfortunately it is only true if the shoes are what is holding you back. After 4 months of climbing spending money on better shoes is money wasted. Climb your shoes into the ground, wear out another pair. Work on your footwork. At some point you will notice that those beginner shoes will start lasting much longer than the first pair. THEN you consider getting something more advanced.

It was never about being instantly better, but more about having that extra room in the toe box. I was just dwelling on if I made the classic noob mistake of buying my first pair too small- which, was only a half size. However, after look at their chart, it seems to be more than a half size. I do appreciate all the responses, though!

Michael M wrote:

It was never about being instantly better, but more about having that extra room in the toe box.

More aggressive shoes have extra vertical space to accommodate curled toes, if anything they will be narrower. 

 I was just dwelling on if I made the classic noob mistake of buying my first pair too small- which, was only a half size. However, after look at their chart, it seems to be more than a half size. I do appreciate all the responses, though!

It's only a mistake if you're unwilling to grit your teeth and build a good pain tolerance, I sized my first shoes as tight as I could bare but putting on the same size now in the same shoe feels like I'm wearing slippers and I can wear really tight high performance shoes for extended periods. 

Unless someone is a really well controlled type 2 (and even then) I would strongly suggest they avoid really tight shoes like some of the posters above are suggesting.  They don't understand the medical significance of the condition and how it affects feet.    Sticking to a looser fit will be safer for diabetic. At 4 months in I promise you are not being held back by your shoe.   Talk to your provider if you want advice specific to your medical situation. 

Nick B wrote:

Unless someone is a really well controlled type 2 (and even then) I would strongly suggest they avoid really tight shoes like some of the posters above are suggesting.

It's not really type 2 fun, it sucked then and looking back it still sucked it was just worth it, it's more along the lines of training really, pain now victory later.

  They don't understand the medical significance of the condition and how it affects feet.  

Correct but I don't think anybody is giving medical advice here, I can only speak from personal experience with fairly healthy normalish feet as it goes with everything posted in forums you're own mileage may vary especially if you have a underlying medical condition.

that guy named seb wrote:

It's not really type 2 fun

Lol i was referring to "type 2 diabetic".   Double points if you were trolling me   

John Wilder wrote:

There's no reason to build up 'pain tolerance' for climbing shoes. Good fit is what delivers performance, not sizing down so much that any shoe will fit your foot.

Pain tolerance is definitely necessary for softer shoes especially if you want to be able to actually be able to stand on edges, the whole idea is the shoes gets it's structure from your feet being crammed in tight enough that the natural movement in your foot is minimized.

Nick B wrote:

Lol i was referring to "type 2 diabetic".   Double points if you were trolling me   

unfortunately i'm just an idiot, sorry to disappoint.

I own a pair of the vapor v’s.  And I’d buy a second pair for a comfy gym shoe if my instincts weren’t do damn comfortable.  

That said.  They have a really wide toe box and will stretch up to a full size over about a year of moderate climbing.  With most scarpa shoes, you really don’t need to size them so small that your feet hurt.  Your toes don’t really need to be much more that moderately curled due to the slingshot rand putting a lot of your force on your big toe to begin with.  

Since they stretch a lot over time, find what size your toes are semi curled in and get 1/2 to 1 size smaller.  They will break in very quickly. 

But like others have said, it’s much better to go to your local shop and try on a ton of shoes.  What advice we give for the vapor v’s won’t be the same for any other brand or model (even in scarpa’s lineup)

that guy named seb wrote:

unfortunately i'm just an idiot, sorry to disappoint.

Lol naaa, I used shorthand medical jargon that overlaps with a more common outdoor activity term.   My bad really.  Would have been a great troll though.