Kong Express Frog

Hey guys,

Anyone owns kong frog? Can someone tell me what’s the pros & cons compared to ordinary QD?

https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/f2-quickdraws/p103-frogquickdraw

It's pretty self-evident, I would think.  You can't compare it to an ordinary quickdraw.  It's a special tool for hard-to-clip bolts that can be a particular advantage for shorter climbers.  I've never felt a need for one, but have several partners who love it.  From messing around with one, I might speculate that the major disadvantage would be that its bolt-clipping end might get jammed up with dirt easily.

Stick clipping.

Pnelson wrote:

It's pretty self-evident, I would think.  You can't compare it to an ordinary quickdraw.  It's a special tool for hard-to-clip bolts that can be a particular advantage for shorter climbers.  I've never felt a need for one, but have several partners who love it.  From messing around with one, I might speculate that the major disadvantage would be that its bolt-clipping end might get jammed up with dirt easily.

Thanks for the head up matey!

I'm one of those partners Pnelson is referring to, and yes, I like my Frog. I think calling it a quickdraw is a bit of a misnomer. I would never want to have a whole rack of them as my go-to quickdraws. But it works well for that occasional out-of-reach clip. I take it with me on every onsight climb where I am hanging draws, and I would estimate that I use it on maybe one climb out of 5 of 6.

The biggest disadvantage of the frog is that you have to "prime it", by pushing on the little ears on the sides to open the clipping mechanism. But you can't do this ahead of time, while on the ground. Because the thing that makes this gizmo easy to clip on the bolt when you are just barely touching the hanger is the ease with which it closes when something touches the top. And that means that a simple bump against your thigh is enough to close the mechanism. So when you do need to use it, you get it off your harness, move your hand up to the little ears to open them, then move your hand down the dogbone  (bc after all, you need every last bit of a reach to clip that thing, otherwise you wouldn't be using it, so you need to hold it as close to the rope-side 'biner as you can). So if you are at a really marginal clipping stance, that extra second or two makes a difference. But most of the time it isn't an issue. Usually the situation is that there is a great clipping stance, but the bolt is just slightly out of reach.

The other issue that can sometimes be problematic is that if you have a smaller hanger on the bolt, it is hard to switch out the frog for a regular draw while hanging on that bolt, because you might have trouble clipping your second quickdraw into the same bolt hanger. What I usually try to do, if I use a frog, is to switch it out for a regular draw, if I can, once I climb past it. In most cases there would be another good hold higher up, from which I can reach down, unclip the frog, and replace it with a regular draw. I have taken falls on the frog, and it is just fine, but if I am not sure what's coming up, I might want to have that frog for another reachy clip higher up, because the thing is, usually if the bolter is making reachy clips, he doesn't do it in just one spot.

The kong Panic didn't used to be available, and it looks to be a good option, too. But I don't have a burning need to buy one, so I haven't tried it, yet.

Lena chita wrote:

The biggest disadvantage of the frog is that you have to "prime it", by pushing on the little ears on the sides to open the clipping mechanism.

You must rack the Frog with the other-end clipped to your harness. I rack mine with the Frog clipped to my gear loop, so the action of taking it off my harness "primes" it and it's ready to go.

aikibujin wrote:

You must rack the Frog with the other-end clipped to your harness. I rack mine with the Frog clipped to my gear loop, so the action of taking it off my harness "primes" it and it's ready to go.

Now that i think about it, I actually tried it this way when I first got it, but back then I had a Metolius Safetech harness, and the "full strength" gear loops on that harness are relatively thick, because they have webbing running through plastic channel. So the Kong was hard to get off the harness, if you clipped it to the gear loop that way. So I started flipping it over, when racking it, and then (force of habit, I guess!) never thought to try flipping it again, when I switched to Arc'teryx harness.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try it this way next time!

Lena chita wrote:

I'm one of those partners Pnelson is referring to, and yes, I like my Frog. I think calling it a quickdraw is a bit of a misnomer. I would never want to have a whole rack of them as my go-to quickdraws. But it works well for that occasional out-of-reach clip. I take it with me on every onsight climb where I am hanging draws, and I would estimate that I use it on maybe one climb out of 5 of 6.

The biggest disadvantage of the frog is that you have to "prime it", by pushing on the little ears on the sides to open the clipping mechanism. But you can't do this ahead of time, while on the ground. Because the thing that makes this gizmo easy to clip on the bolt when you are just barely touching the hanger is the ease with which it closes when something touches the top. And that means that a simple bump against your thigh is enough to close the mechanism. So when you do need to use it, you get it off your harness, move your hand up to the little ears to open them, then move your hand down the dogbone  (bc after all, you need every last bit of a reach to clip that thing, otherwise you wouldn't be using it, so you need to hold it as close to the rope-side 'biner as you can). So if you are at a really marginal clipping stance, that extra second or two makes a difference. But most of the time it isn't an issue. Usually the situation is that there is a great clipping stance, but the bolt is just slightly out of reach.

The other issue that can sometimes be problematic is that if you have a smaller hanger on the bolt, it is hard to switch out the frog for a regular draw while hanging on that bolt, because you might have trouble clipping your second quickdraw into the same bolt hanger. What I usually try to do, if I use a frog, is to switch it out for a regular draw, if I can, once I climb past it. In most cases there would be another good hold higher up, from which I can reach down, unclip the frog, and replace it with a regular draw. I have taken falls on the frog, and it is just fine, but if I am not sure what's coming up, I might want to have that frog for another reachy clip higher up, because the thing is, usually if the bolter is making reachy clips, he doesn't do it in just one spot.

The kong Panic didn't used to be available, and it looks to be a good option, too. But I don't have a burning need to buy one, so I haven't tried it, yet.

Lena, thank you for your detailed ‘review’ of the frog. I get a much better picture now. I might not need it but I think probably it’s good having one of either frog or panic in the rack. Thanks again!

Lena chita wrote:

Now that i think about it, I actually tried it this way when I first got it, but back then I had a Metolius Safetech harness, and the "full strength" gear loops on that harness are relatively thick, because they have webbing running through plastic channel. So the Kong was hard to get off the harness, if you clipped it to the gear loop that way.

I know what you mean, that narrow opening is another annoyance with the Frog.

To the OP, I own a Kong Frog, a Kong Panic, and a Mad Rock Trigger Wire. That tells you I’m a big scared baby when it comes to falling. I don’t like to fall on anything other than a big overhang.

One pro of the Frog that hasn’t been mentioned is that the opening operation essentially makes it act as a locking biner. You need to depress both ears on the mechanism to make it open. In my opinion that makes it highly unlikely that it can open itself and unclip from the bolt. So I put a locking biner on the rope end of the Frog, and also used it as a locking draw when I need one.

But the cons of the Frog really outweigh the pros. The narrow opening Lena mentioned is another problem. Not only is it harder to get the Frog on and off a thick gear loop, you also need to align it to the narrow side of the bolt hanger in order to clip it in. So for a standard bolt hanger angled 45 degrees counterclockwise: if you’re standing way off to the left, then it may be impossible to get the Frog clipped to the bolt hanger, or at least you reduce how far you can reach with the Frog because you have to hold it at the same 45 degrees angle.

The one I have is one of the older Frogs with a pretty short sling, it only extended my reach by a few inches. Some of the newer ones have a much longer sling. But the sling on the Frog is not user replaceable (as far as I can tell). So when the sling eventually wears out, I’m not sure what you can do with it.

For the above reasons, my Frog usually stays home now.

Mad Rock Trigger Wire – I thought it’s kind of gimmicky at first, since you can sort of do the same thing with a small stick or a bit of a tape. But I have really come to love this little biner, and it pretty much lives on my harness now. I put it on a long stiff Petzl Axess dogbone, and have used it countless times to clip a bolt that is just a few inches out of reach from a good clipping stance. It’s the size of a regular biner, which matters when you try to swap it out with a regular quickdraw (I always do). The only problem with the Trigger Wire is that it’s a bit figgity to prop the gate open with one hand. But it’s certainly doable at a good stance.

Kong Panic – I usually have this in my pack, but only rack it on my harness if I’m starting on a route right at my redpoint limit and may need to yard up on the draws to work it. The long stiff sling is really nice, make it more like a short stick clip than a quickdraw. The biner is also easy to prop open with one hand, and if your weight is on the biner, the trigger mechanism also essentially make it into a locking biner. The problem with the Panic is that the biner is much wider than a regular biner (to accommodate the trigger mechanism). If the hanger is small, it can be a struggle to swap it out with a regular (or a shorter) quickdraw.

aikibujin wrote:

I know what you mean, that narrow opening is another annoyance with the Frog.

To the OP, I own a Kong Frog, a Kong Panic, and a Mad Rock Trigger Wire. That tells you I’m a big scared baby when it comes to falling. I don’t like to fall on anything other than a big overhang.

Good advice. Personally compared with kong front and panic. Which do you prefer?

Alvin Tham wrote:

Good advice. Personally compared with kong front and panic. Which do you prefer?

Since my Frog pretty much stays home all the time now, while I keep the Panic in my pack even if I don't rack it for every single route, I'd say the Panic is the winner between the two.

Along with what gas been mentioned so far, I'll chip in one more pro:

Once you are used to it and have practiced using it a bit, you can clip it to bolts with amazing speed, which is a nice benefits when pumped. One of my regular partners owns one and I am always amazed at the speed at which he deploys it.

As mentioned, It can be a bit fiddly to get both sides of the mechanism to engage fully  if the hangers is at an odd angle though.

Sorry for being ingnorance. Hope we’re talking about the same product. Pic as attached. I thought it would be too short for ‘stick clipping’ or you’re using a longer dog bone? 

To avoid confusion, here are pictures of the three products I talked about.

Kong Frog

Kong Panic 

Mad Rock Trigger Wire

I'm not using the Frog (pictured at the top) as a "stick clip". I specifically said this about the Frog: "The one I have is one of the older Frogs with a pretty short sling, it only extended my reach by a few inches." Kong Panic (pictured in the middle) is what I called a "short stick clip" due to the stiff long sling.

If you really want to get confused, there is another product by Kong called the Prog I hinted to as a Frog with a long sling, but I didn't mention it by name.

aikibujin wrote:

To avoid confusion, here are pictures of the three products I talked about.

Alvin Tham wrote:

.. I thought it would be too short for ‘stick clipping’ or you’re using a longer dog bone? 

You still need a "Stick", but the actual clipping is much quicker and easier compared to an ordinary draw, especially for the really high ones.

Ģnöfudør Ðrænk wrote:

You still need a "Stick", but the actual clipping is much quicker and easier compared to an ordinary draw, especially for the really high ones.

Will get one or two to try for myself. Thanks for all the tip sharing here. 

Works great for aid when reachy clips or clipping reachy fixed gear. Panic looks even better for things like clipping fixed heads.