Why are offset nuts a thing?

If regular nuts and most hexes are offset when placed in their sideways position, why are offset nuts so popular and even sold? For example: Is the angle significantly different between DMM Wallnuts in their sideways position and DMM HB Alloy Offsets that they work for different placements? I can see for smaller and micro offset nuts it being necessary as you can only get so small by turning a regular nut on it's side. Their must be a reason for this product to exist. Is their a good explanation? 

I've placed my DMM offset nuts more than any other gear I think.

because all the old traddies hammered in too many pitons changing the rock for ever and ever

Here you go.

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greggrylls wrote:

Edek Falkowski wrote:  greggrylls is right about contact area. Whether or not to get offset nuts largely depends on where you climb. Climbing in the Adirondacks a lot (where many cracks are flaring), the offsets make protecting the climbs a lot easier. They're a specialized piece of gear, not necessarily suitable for everywhere.

Thank you greggrylls and Edek for answering my question sincerely. I'm deeply appreciative. So it is purely about surface area increasing the friction and thus holding power of the piece such that you'd choose an offset nut for a flaring crack rather than a nut placed sideways? 

Sometimes rule #1 is so hard to follow.  Best of luck. 

anotherclimber wrote:

Thank you greggrylls and Edek for answering my question sincerely. I'm deeply appreciative. So it is purely about surface area increasing the friction and thus holding power of the piece such that you'd choose an offset nut for a flaring crack rather than a nut placed sideways? 

TBH when i'm placing them i'm not thinking about friction or holding power necessarily (though this is a factor the #1 dmm wallnut is super weak sideways where instead you could get a bomber gold offset or similar.)  For me it comes down to ease of placement.  Maybe 1/10 nuts I place is sideways.  In my experience placing nuts sideways feels a bit more fiddly (in the smallish sizes) they tend to twist side to side in precise or irregular placements where I could have just thrown in a offset and continued on my way.   

My first nuts were wallnuts if that's all you got use em they're great.  

anotherclimber wrote:

Thank you greggrylls and Edek for answering my question sincerely. I'm deeply appreciative. So it is purely about surface area increasing the friction and thus holding power of the piece such that you'd choose an offset nut for a flaring crack rather than a nut placed sideways? 

Precisely.  You want as much surface contact as possible.  I've found that offsets provide that in many cracks, whereas standard nuts have like two or three "pressure points" on the rock.

3 of the first 4 replies removed. Everyone sees a troll thread, no one stops the actual trolls.

greggrylls wrote:

TBH when i'm placing them i'm not thinking about friction or holding power necessarily (though this is a factor the #1 dmm wallnut is super weak sideways where instead you could get a bomber gold offset or similar.)  For me it comes down to ease of placement.  Maybe 1/10 nuts I place is sideways.  In my experience placing nuts sideways feels a bit more fiddly (in the smallish sizes) they tend to twist side to side in precise or irregular placements where I could have just thrown in a offset and continued on my way.   

My first nuts were wallnuts if that's all you got use em they're great.  

Anthony Lubetski wrote: Precisely.  You want as much surface contact as possible.  I've found that offsets provide that in many cracks, whereas standard nuts have like two or three "pressure points" on the rock.

Thank you both of you for further clarification. This is very helpful. I actually own both sets. I just never really used the Wallnuts in the sideways position very often. It had me wondering why not, and why couldn't they be used in place of offset nuts? I knew their had to be a reason for offset nuts existing and being sold. So it's good to hear other peoples experience. 

Locally, a lot of very experienced climbers don't carry offset nuts on their rack and seem to get along fine without them. That being said though, so far in my own experience it so far has been no more than one, or very rarely two offset placements per route on certain climbs and definitely not all of them, such that it blows me away when people say they only rack offset nuts. As I'd be dangerously running things out on the climb without having regular nuts. And I do agree that there are some placements where the HB Alloy Offsets just go in right in place very quickly and are super secure. 

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EDIT: Mine didn't get removed, I just copy/pasted it into a reply hit ITALIC

anotherclimber wrote:

Locally, a lot of very experienced climbers don't carry offset nuts on their rack and seem to get along fine without them. That being said though, so far in my own experience it so far has been no more than one, or very rarely two offset placements per route on certain climbs and definitely not all of them, such that it blows me away when people say they only rack offset nuts. As I'd be dangerously running things out on the climb without having regular nuts. And I do agree that there are some placements where the HB Alloy Offsets just go in right in place very quickly and are super secure. 

what rock are you climbing on?  Certain granite areas are usually where offsets are king, i love my offset nuts and now carry mostly offsets with only a couple of my favorite sizes of regular nuts.  The dmm nuts are just magic.  But my local crag is granite and takes offets really well, when i climb in squamish which is also granite i dont' use the offsets as much.  Also i find many places a medium sized regular nut will go a cam will also go, whereass the spots offset nuts are bomber often wont take a cam (and yes i know someone is gonna say they'd rather have a nut over a cam ect or whatnot, i'm just saying carrying cams and offsets covers me better than cams and regular nuts).  

Also placing regular nuts in sideways to make them offset only works in relatively large nut placments, i wouldn't wanna trust the tiny purple bd #5 nut in sideways but the yellow or red dmm... 

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Once you go offset, you'll never go back.

Zacks wrote:

what rock are you climbing on?  Certain granite areas are usually where offsets are king, i love my offset nuts and now carry mostly offsets with only a couple of my favorite sizes of regular nuts.  The dmm nuts are just magic.  But my local crag is granite and takes offets really well, when i climb in squamish which is also granite i dont' use the offsets as much.  Also i find many places a medium sized regular nut will go a cam will also go, whereass the spots offset nuts are bomber often wont take a cam (and yes i know someone is gonna say they'd rather have a nut over a cam ect or whatnot, i'm just saying carrying cams and offsets covers me better than cams and regular nuts).  

Also placing regular nuts in sideways to make them offset only works in relatively large nut placments, i wouldn't wanna trust the tiny purple bd #5 nut in sideways but the yellow or red dmm... 

Mostly schist and some granite. Ah, I see, so you carry more cams to take the place of regular nuts. I can see why you'd do that. Not my approach though. Thanks for your response!

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