Bailing off a route and using trees. Should you leave gear and girth hitch the tree?

Had to bail off a route recently and my partner was leaving a sling and a biner on each tree we bailed off of. I didn't want to argue about leaving gear given the stressful situation and the day after my partner didn't really have a reason for leaving gear, saying "That's just how I was taught"

my preferred method in order to not leave gear would be wrap the rope around the tree, have a backup piece that is loosely connected to the rope in case the tree breaks. Heavier person goes first, if the tree held, the lighter person goes and brings the piece down with them.

so my question is, why not just put the rope around the tree and pull the rope after rapping which would allow you to bail without leaving any gear?

Tree saps sometimes get on the rope as you pull and cut into the tree.

Auden Alsop wrote:

To add:

It is considered common courtesy to leave your own tat and cut off others, it enables others to continue to use the tree and and you get karma :)

cut off damaged ones you mean, right..? probably not good karma if you're cutting existing rap tat every time you come across it

just to be clear, this bail happened on an unusual pathway down where leave no trace would be preferred over leaving gear for others to also use.

Use any means to get down alive in an emergency. 

Unless you had no good reason to bail, then up is down...

I’m not sure what we’re talking about here. If I bail off a route using a tree that’s not a rappel station I don’t leave a sling. I figure chances are no ones going to use that tree anytime soon. I make sure the tree is bigger than my, well a normal male’s thigh. If I’m at the top of a route or the end of my rope(s) I’ll build something around the tree.

 Example, we’re waiting for a party to finish pitch 2 twenty feet below the top of pitch 1. Although there’s four packs at the bottom of this route. A party of six, two leaders, four followers and two sets doubles, decides to climb route. It’s a 20 minute trailers approach so I guess they figure it’s a waste to turn back. After having a conversation with one of them my partner wants to bail. We picked a tree and rapped back to the ground. I don’t see a reason to sling that tree.

 I get ready to rap down at the top of a route and there’s no station or one piece of cord. I would tie something around a tree.

I have bailed using both methods, slings/rap rings vs rope wrapping a tree. I've worried about the tree with the rope way more than the tree with a loose sling, that will rot away far quicker than the 9.5mm rope that stuck because of sap or caught.

OrganicChemistry wrote:

I have bailed using both methods, slings/rap rings vs rope wrapping a tree. I've worried about the tree with the rope way more than the tree with a loose sling, that will rot away far quicker than the 9.5mm rope that stuck because of sap or caught.

wait, tree sap will rot/damage your rope?

dsauerbrun wrote:

wait, tree sap will rot/damage your rope?

No. It just attracts dirt.

Auden Alsop wrote:

Understandable, the problem is is wrapping the tree with your rope directly can kill the tree and decrease the experience for future parties. If you can, use earth toned cords or webbing, but better to use removable tat that other can remove later than to kill a tree, IMHO

One rap and pulldown off a tree on an emergency bail is not going to do a thing to the tree. Consider that the popular rap trees that have died over the years took 40 years to do so, and that's primarily from soil compaction on the roots, not the grooves cut by countless ropes.

The question is not life or death (as so many above seem to think), the question is being a cheap bastard and possibly killing the tree or leaving behind bail gear. 

I bring about 25ft of cordelette on alpine routes that I don't mind cutting and leaving behind-I've only once ever had to. A Matt points out there are techniques where the rope can go around the tree and not act like a saw when you pull it. The macrame is another style. Canyoneers have some experience here.

Also, OP is from Boulder. I saw someone doing this to a tree in Eldo at a very popular spot with a relatively easy walk-off...that's just goddamn lazy and or cheap. Especially don't run your rope around trees at busy places, the tree may never get a chance to recover with all you fools!

dsauerbrun wrote:

wait, tree sap will rot/damage your rope?

STUCK because of sap...you know, when pulling the rope....

I climbed on Shirt Tail in Eldo several times over a month or so recently and on two occasions cleaned a sling off the tree at the top of P1 because the tree on the same ledge 15 feet to the right has 6 slings on it already. Climbers: consult the topo (including nearby routes). 

Can someone enlighten me on how a sling causes "no" damage but a rope will kill a tree? I'd understand the rope grooves if you're lifting something up using the tree as a pulley, but if the rope is unweighted how will that cause damage? I would think that if one rap off a tree will kill this tree, you probably shouldn't be rapping off it to begin with.

Eplumer400 wrote:

Can someone enlighten me on how a sling causes "no" damage but a rope will kill a tree? I'd understand the rope grooves if you're lifting something up using the tree as a pulley, but if the rope is unweighted how will that cause damage? I would think that if one rap off a tree will kill this tree, you probably shouldn't be rapping off it to begin with.

Slings or cordage will be in a static position, and if adequately sized, should not damage the tree' cambium. Even a weightless rope, as noted above, will have high friction over the bark and may result in damage or partial-girdling of the cambium which could impair or kill the tree.

I would concur that a one time rappel on a rarely used descent route directly on the tree (species dependent) is unlikely to result in this damage, but when in doubt, leave cordage behind.

FosterK wrote:

Slings or cordage will be in a static position, and if adequately sized, should not damage the tree' cambium. Even a weightless rope, as noted above, will have high friction over the bark and may result in damage or partial-girdling of the cambium which could impair or kill the tree.

I would concur that a one time rappel on a rarely used descent route directly on the tree (species dependent) is unlikely to result in this damage, but when in doubt, leave cordage behind.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/techtips/tworingretrievableanchor/

http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyoneering101/?page=2-ring-retrievable-sling

May not work in your exact situation but it's something to consider if you're worried about leaving gear.  You can use the climbing/rappel rope as the pull cord with some trickery if you don't have enough pull cord with you.  

FosterK wrote:

Slings or cordage will be in a static position, and if adequately sized, should not damage the tree' cambium. Even a weightless rope, as noted above, will have high friction over the bark and may result in damage or partial-girdling of the cambium which could impair or kill the tree.

I would concur that a one time rappel on a rarely used descent route directly on the tree (species dependent) is unlikely to result in this damage, but when in doubt, leave cordage behind.

To build on this comment, a quick lesson in tree anatomy: the cambium is the layer of living tissue between a tree's bark and the dead wood. All of the tree's nutrients and fluids flow through this layer. This is how a tree's roots bring water and minerals up to the leaves, and how the energy from the leaves get down to the roots. And the flow is more or less vertical: if there's a horizontal cut in the cambium, that interrupts the tree's ability to move nutrients and fluids. 

As described in other posts, if you pull 30m of rope around a tree, you stand a good chance of sawing through the bark and into the tree's cambium. Depending on tree species and size, you could reduce the tree's ability to move nutrients by 50%. Maybe the tree will recover, maybe it won't. In many environments where we climb, like deserts (such as Eldo), or the alpine, trees are under enough stress that the chances of recovery can be quite low. So one rope pull could indeed kill a tree. And even if it doesn't, you may injure the tree to the point where it can't grow new roots fast enough to remain as a good anchor choice.

This is why it's standard practice to leave a sling. Tie it loosely so the tree has room to grow before getting choked. Cut off old slings, especially if they're constricting the tree.

There are tons of trees I can think of that have been used to rap off, most are pine trees or similar.   None are dying but some have grooves in the bark from years of pulling rap lines.   If it is a rarely used tree I would just rap off it without giving it a second thought, not a big deal.   Why leave ugly tat and biner?  

nkane wrote:

. In many environments where we climb, like deserts (such as Eldo), or the alpine, trees are under enough stress that the chances of recovery can be quite low. 

This is a factor I hadn't considered in my original reply: alpine, desert, and  in general cliff environments are stressful growing locations, and combined with poor rap procedures may contribute to the decline to the tree. Thanks for point this out!

Never, ever rap off a tree directly. It is your responsibility to preserve its life by using a sling.

Our trees are severely stressed by drought and climate change. Removal of dirt near them is enough to kill them as all soil near them is part of their reservoir that prevents deeper soils from drying out etc etc. and every drop counts for these severely stressed organisms. They are eeking out life with minimal soil and water for their needs on a cliff face throughout the arid west and competing for nutrients/water in other locations.

If you have witnessed the changes in trees that are likely hundreds of years old over the last 40 years from being near/on routes and used as rap stations you would understand this better. A sling helps a little, but inevitably we kill them if they are used for rap stations regularly unless they are particularly large and robust.