Cleaning Overhanging Roofs w/ Lowerouts

I was up on Salathe this weekend, and had big trouble following the roof underneath the headwall. My partner had left two pieces clipped, so I had to do three lower-outs (one from the anchor, and one from each piece). However, unlike past lower-outs I've done these started from completely free-hanging positions (i.e. I jugged straight up the piece and was still free hanging below it). My basic strategy was jug up to the piece, clip another tether to the piece, get my weight on the tether, invariably get my jumars stuck in the piece (since I had to jug close enough to get the tether on it), struggle for ten minutes, eventually do the lower-out...

So I guess my question is this; in overhanging situations how do you get yourself clipped to the piece without getting you ascenders completely jammed in the carabiner?

There's two answers for what you're asking:

Method 1: Slower (prob more secure)

1. Come to piece
2. Pull in slack and get tight on your grigri
3. Weighting the grigri, take jugs off and place above piece
4. Clip tether/fifi into piece
5. Release tension through grigri
6. Lower out as normal

Method 2: Faster 

1. Come to piece
2. Weight lower ascender while taking top ascender off and clipping above the piece.
3. Clip tether/fifi into piece (while still weighting lower ascender) 
4. Hold rope below the ascender with your hand, uncam ascender, allow rope to flow through ascender via loosening grip on the rope until weight is on tether/fifi
5. Lower out as normal.

Were the pieces fixed or your own?

If they were fixed, did they have a tat sling on them?

If your leader back cleaned between pieces he did you no favors, but wall climbing is a constant problem solving endevour so you have to deal with it. 

So, lowering out from the anchor. I’ve been there so I know the set up, certainly he clipped that ring angle just past the anchor (which, btw, was there in 1974 when I first did the route). This one is easy: brace yourself against the rock with your feet and body, up clip from the anchor and simply jump over right. No biggie, get it done, no fiddle fucking around. 

From here, let’s say he back cleaned a bit, the rope runs up and right a bit. You’re hanging below the piece, get your Gri-gri on the rope jug up close to the piece, move your top jug over the piece, (MAKE SURE YOU HEAR THE SAFTEY CLICK), snug up your gri gri, put your weight on the top jug and release the bottom jug, let it dangle. Your gri gri is on the rope and if you have a half a brain in your head (being sarcastic, not personal) you have a back up knot with about a 20 foot loop, you ain’t gonna die so don’t worry about it. Lower yourself out a bit via the gri gri. 

Now here is the fun part.

Pull yourself back in, arrange the biner so that it is nose up, (as an aside here, in a team of advanced wall climbers, the leader would have set up the biner that way originally so that the second had an easier time cleaning it) pull yourself in quickly, unclip the biner and take the swing out into space. OR, pop the cam and take the swing. 

When cleaning very steep overhangs it is very advantageous to have a common fifi hook attached to your belay loop. Easily and quickly you can get yourself up high and tight to either jug to be able to reach high or low.

If the fixed gear has tat on it or from a bolt or wire, you can thread a 25 foot chunk of 5 mil through the eye, the wire or whatever. Have the 5 mil clipped to your belay loop, run it through the piece and back to a biner on your loop. Attach to it via Munter and tie it off. Clean your biner (cut off the tat) , pop the tie off and lower yourself out to the end of the 5 mil, let go, take whatever swing is left, jug up to the next piece and repeat. 

All in all, get it done! No fiddle fucking around! Take the swing! This is big wall climbing, this ain’t no weenie roast! 

I’m getting pretty tired of this, I’ve typed this in three time and when I’ve gone to post it, I’ve gotten the 404 error and the post disappeared.

Probably the best, easiest and fastest method to use here would be one jug and a grigri. 

Jug up to the piece, snug up the grigri and move the jug over the piece. Clip a biner into the bottom of the jug and over the rope, this will keep the ascender more in line with the rope. Make sure you see and hear the safety latch click into place. Most of the time ascenders pop off the rope, it is user error. 

Lower out a bit and use the pull and pop or 5 mil cord method to clean the piece.

If you are really tricky and observant (which, if you want to be a good big wall climber, you better be or should learn to be), you can use the 5 mil cord trick to clean all sorts of awkward things easily and quickly.

In case you don't know what Mark means by the "5 mil cord method" here's a post of his detailing that. 

MP Forum link

Thanks, Kevin, I had forgotten about that post. 

I want to see if I'm clear on this. So instead of looping the climbing rope through some tat to lower out you:

1. snug up the grigri and move the ascender above the pro

2. fifi into the pro

3. run 5mm cord through the tat, bolt, etc

4. lower yourself on a munter with the cord until you don't need to lower or it pops free for a swing

jug up the rope and repeat if necessary. 

This does seem like it would save time over dropping some backup knots looping the rope through and back to your harness. lowering out then retying enough knots to keep the rope from hanging far enough down to snag some flake. Let me know if I've missed something critical. Thanks Mark, you as always are a wealth of knowledge and try to break free of old ways to find new ways to do things. 

Thanks, 

All is correct except for fifing into the piece. There is no need to do that.

Imagine this in great detail: 

You are on your top (and only) jug (which is a couple inches below the piece).

From the piece, the rope goes up and sharply right.

Pull up on the jug a bit and snug up your grigri as high as you can. No big deal, just snug it up.

All of your weight is now on your grigri.

All is good in your world. You’re hanging under the Salathe roof thinking of Tom Frost on the first ascent. Take a breath and relax. 

Take the ascender off the rope and put it above the piece, clipping the biner that I mentioned above over the rope.

If you are cleaning your own piece, lower yourself out a bit via your grigri, pull back in sharply, and in that little moment where you are weightless, unclip the biner or pop the cam. Take the swing, don’t worry about it. Rack the gear appropriately and move up.

Or, if you are having trouble doing that AND the piece is fixed:

Take the end of the 25 foot piece of 5 mil you have clipped to you belay loop and thread the end through the eye of the pin (taking care that you will still be able to remove the biner) and back to a biner on your belay loop. Yard yourself in (imagine an N. The cord goes up from your harness, through the piece, down to the biner on your harness and back up into your hand. You have created a 2:1 mechanical advantage. Yarding yourself in should be easy!

Yard yourself in to get your weight off the rope and within comfortable reach of the piece. Secure the 5 mil with a couple of half hitches. 

Clean your gear, and cut off the tat.

Lower yourself out to the end of the 5mil, and let it go. Take the swing. Enjoy it! 

Perfect, thanks Mark!

Thanks for all the help! Particularly that last post Mark; definitely painted a wonderful word picture! :)

Method 3:  Clip clean.  On longer horizontal and dangly roof stretches like P5 of WFLT don’t forget you can often re-aid a section faster than repeatedly lowering out and screwing around.

Mark Hudon wrote:

So, lowering out from the anchor. I’ve been there so I know the set up, certainly he clipped that ring angle just past the anchor (which, btw, was there in 1974 when I first did the route). This one is easy: brace yourself against the rock with your feet and body, up clip from the anchor and simply jump over right. No biggie, get it done, no fiddle fucking around. 

From here, let’s say he back cleaned a bit, the rope runs up and right a bit. You’re hanging below the piece, get your Gri-gri on the rope jug up close to the piece, move your top jug over the piece, (MAKE SURE YOU HEAR THE SAFTEY CLICK), snug up your gri gri, put your weight on the top jug and release the bottom jug, let it dangle. Your gri gri is on the rope and if you have a half a brain in your head (being sarcastic, not personal) you have a back up knot with about a 20 foot loop, you ain’t gonna die so don’t worry about it. Lower yourself out a bit via the gri gri. 

Now here is the fun part.

Pull yourself back in, arrange the biner so that it is nose up, (as an aside here, in a team of advanced wall climbers, the leader would have set up the biner that way originally so that the second had an easier time cleaning it) pull yourself in quickly, unclip the biner and take the swing out into space. OR, pop the cam and take the swing. 

When cleaning very steep overhangs it is very advantageous to have a common fifi hook attached to your belay loop. Easily and quickly you can get yourself up high and tight to either jug to be able to reach high or low.

If the fixed gear has tat on it or from a bolt or wire, you can thread a 25 foot chunk of 5 mil through the eye, the wire or whatever. Have the 5 mil clipped to your belay loop, run it through the piece and back to a biner on your loop. Attach to it via Munter and tie it off. Clean your biner (cut off the tat) , pop the tie off and lower yourself out to the end of the 5 mil, let go, take whatever swing is left, jug up to the next piece and repeat. 

All in all, get it done! No fiddle fucking around! Take the swing! This is big wall climbing, this ain’t no weenie roast! 

Mark: I wish you would do some more YouTube videos on this general topic. Lowering out, overhang cleaning, etc.   your old videos have really helped me and there is very little in lower outs. I need the help! Please

Thanks,

I know. I should. They are tough to do well though. I'd need big time videographer help.