REI's Used Gear Beta - try it out and post your feedback!

Hello fellow climbers,

For those of you in the USA, you can now save big and shop online for lightly used gear direct from REI via our new test program, the Used Gear Beta.  We are testing it out to see if people like it and are seeking your feedback.  Unfortunately for climbers, for safety and liability reasons we can't resell climbing hardware, but there are good deals on most everything else including tents, packs, boots (even higher end climbing boots or rock shoes), and all sorts of apparel. Listings are added daily.

You can access the program here: https://www.rei.com/used .  And you can read more about it here: https://www.rei.com/blog/stewardship/online-used-gear-beta-gets-more-gear-to-more-people 

Happy adventuring,

Vik

I took a look and am not really sure I would buy anything from there.  It looks to be roughly 25% off new price.  When I can get the same thing "new" using a 20% off coupon I'd rather do that and be sure of it's history.  I've never understood the retail garage sale pricing.  One month I bought a perfect condition ORU kayak for $250, missing one bulkhead which the company later sent for free.  Next month I went to the garage sale and the same item with the same "issue" was $900!  There definitely are some amazing deals on some items at the retail garage sale but they are definitely hit or miss.

Thanks Joe.  The "New" price shown is the current or last selling price known at REI... so not the MSRP or initial selling price, which could be much more.  If you Google and look for comparisons, I think our pricing is pretty good and we are offering a 30 day return policy.

Joe Z. wrote:

I took a look and am not really sure I would buy anything from there.  It looks to be roughly 25% off new price.  When I can get the same thing "new" using a 20% off coupon I'd rather do that and be sure of it's history.  I've never understood the retail garage sale pricing.  One month I bought a perfect condition ORU kayak for $250, missing one bulkhead which the company later sent for free.  Next month I went to the garage sale and the same item with the same "issue" was $900!  There definitely are some amazing deals on some items at the retail garage sale but they are definitely hit or miss.

Agreed. The pricing seems very...ambitious. Also, without a picture of the actual used item, not a stock photo, buyer beware for sure.

a search option would be clutch. Everyone appreciates organization. Just in the shoe section, for example, it would be nice if sandals and closed toe shoes were categorized. And trying to find a climbing shoe in that mess could wear out anyone's patience. The hierarchy of REI's main site is nicely organized as a reference point. Why re-invent the wheel & make it flat?

ClimbingOn wrote:

Agreed. The pricing seems very...ambitious. Also, without a picture of the actual used item, not a stock photo, buyer beware for sure.

This. Total dealbreaker

neat idea, but quickly browsing the items they have up and comparing to their original retail, you're hardly getting a deal.  A savvy online shopper can apply some discount codes, active junky, and a sale to achieve the same, if not better, prices on those items but NEW, not used or worn.  REI is ok, but their biggest downfall is their price mark up and never offering discounts greater than 20%.  Time and time and time again I am shopping with BackCountry.com  And don't even get me started on the customer service between the two, BC is basically flawless.

Lisa Ellerin wrote:

a search option would be clutch. Everyone appreciates organization. Just in the shoe section, for example, it would be nice if sandals and closed toe shoes were categorized. And trying to find a climbing shoe in that mess could wear out anyone's patience. The hierarchy of REI's main site is nicely organized as a reference point. Why re-invent the wheel & make it flat?

I agree with this point - categorization, sorting and filtering options are standard anymore and for good reason. It helps the consumer find the products and it's pretty easy to do with modern software. I guess some people buy stuff simply because "its a good deal" but I'd bet most people shop for things I need or are looking for. Polo shirts, bike jerseys and dry suits aren't really my thing, but I am looking for a waterproof shell jacket so for me, even having simple categories like jackets vs t shirts would make the experience exponentially better so you're not endlessly wading through a pile of stuff you aren't interested in with a blind hope that there might be something you are. Click the jackets category - oh there's only 3 items? not what I'm looking for, okay, I'll check back later. To that point, GearTrade is a good example of a very useful site because you can sort by date.

Vikram - I'm glad to see REI embracing used gear sales and am hopeful this takes off and helps to curb the amount of new gear that is manufactured and sold each year. That said, I'm disappointed by the choice to advertise this new service through this forum. I realize REI is an owner of the forum, so it's a bit of a weird situation, but I would hate to see the day when the "For Sale" forum becomes a billboard for businesses to advertise their websites. I think there's a bit of a gray area when it comes to posts that serve double-duty as both advertisements and special offers to users of the forum, but your post does not fall into this gray area. It is merely an advertisement in the form of a forum post. I'd urge you to engage the Mountain Project community in a meaningful way, or to use traditional advertising avenues to spread the word about the new program.

As an aside, I would agree with the others that the prices are much too high to drive meaningful sales. I understand that there's a point at which low prices will cannibalize new product sales, but if this program is meant as a sustainability initiative, that should be a factor in favor of lower prices. 

Way overpriced, no photos of actual gear, no searching, no filtering. Don't see a lot of incentive to use this. 

AnthonyLubetski wrote:

I'll add to the echo chamber... Prices too high.  Pictures needed. Bummed that this probably means the demise of the garage sale.

The garage sales really aren't what they used to be anyway, IMO.  After they revised the return policy to one year and under, the equipment returned was fewer and newer and thus the prices of these items at the garage sale also went up.  I would say many of the garage sale prices reflect the prices of this online section, with the exception of really broken damaged items.

There's a reason no one does this commercially on a large scale. Ebay (and the old half.com which ebay acquired) manages to be successful because they are only a platform for intermediation, and not handling any actual goods. Once you get into owning the inventory all the margin disappears and it's not profitable. Median peer-to-peer used price is probably 50% of full new price, so if you're much over that your sales will be poor and overhead will eat you alive. If you try to match p2p used prices your margins will be nearly zero and overhead will eat you alive. Remember that you have to inventory each item individually so stock-keeping becomes a harder problem than it already is.

This is all on top of the UX issues described above. Searching and browsing are tech problems that can be solved efficiently (though not for free). But you need individual item photos which means you need to pay staff to take those photos.

Several other commenters are leaping to the conclusion that this would replace Garage Sales. I can see why you would want to do that from a business development standpoint but the economics just don't work. All those items that are routed through damage processing now and end up being put out for Garage Sales already sell poorly. It's just hard to match Random Imperfect Item with a buyer, and taking the process online doesn't fix that. Finding a deal at a Garage Sale requires handling the item to find the defects, and individual subjective judgment of whether those defects are acceptable given a steep discount. That existing model successfully outsources the work of finding the goods and inspecting the goods to customers. If you bring those functions in-house, your costs go up, but the amount you can get for the item doesn't go up to compensate, only your probability of finding a buyer.

Thanks all for the feedback on the site and user experience.  That is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for from such a passionate community.  I apologize to those that thought of this as pure advertising.  I do engage in this community and the other project sites in meaningful ways through content contributions (routes, photos, videos, etc.).

We have a number of UX improvements to filtering (e.g., sub category, brand, condition, price, date added) that we are working to implement.

The Used Gear site is not intended to replace Garage Sales.  First we have a lot of customers that don't live near a store and thus never had access to a Garage Sale. Second, too often we end up with great used product that is stranded in a store market and the right customer doesn't show up on that day of the garage sale (probably out adventuring!).  For example... a customer orders a pair of La Sportiva Batura 2.0s for store pickup in Kansas in June thinking ahead to their winter Canmore ice trip.  He tries them out for a weekend hike and finds they don't fit his size 13 foot quite right and returns them (within 1 year at REI; Backcountry only gives you 30 days now).  We historically would hold them in store and then offer them for sale at the local garage sale 2-3 months later at ~50% off retail. No one would buy them.  Nothing wrong with the boot. No one arguing about the price, just no size 13 ice climbers showing up that day and in the market.

The pricing online is following the Garage Sale system, so prices should be similar.  As I mentioned in a follow up post, the 'compare to' price is not the MSRP or initial price though but our last known price. Which might have been deeply marked down.  For example on the homepage we are showing a Women's softshell Activator pant.  That pant was ~$99 new MSRP then over time was marked down to $48.83 and for a 'like new' but customer returned version you can buy it for $34.18 and have 30 days to check it out and return it if you don't like it.  Garage Sale is buyer beware but hands on... this is 30 day satisfaction guarantee since you can't be hands on and we are not doing actual imagery to reduce costs.  B&H photo does used cameras/lenses and doesn't provide actual photos so we are trying that approach.

Again thank you for the feedback and for being such an active and passionate outdoor community!

Vik

Patagonia does something similar with WornWear. Not perfect but definitely does the job.

I just went on to the site, Vikram, actually looking for a couple specific things (climbing pants - La Sportiva and Prana) and down jacket (Patagonia) but the lack of sub-categories and search bar made me abandon the effort in less than 2 minutes.

I'm less critical of the prices than some others above. Personally, I would much rather buy almost new gear at a discount than brand new gear at the same price. I would add that a little more transparency on the quality of the item (more than "Like New" or "Used" - maybe there are more already) and how that relates to the price... For instance calculating a price for some different categories and then highlighting the actual condition would contribute to my buying confidence and help me understand how the use correlates to the discount applied. For instance for an item that would be $100 new but the one you are selling has moderate use: New, $99 / Like New, $79 / Light Use, $69 / Used, $49 / and Heavily Used, $39, as well as any customized description of major defects, if any.

Thanks for trying to find a better home than the dumpster for lightly used gear!

Great idea, less landfill, more reuse.

But everybody's right: prices are too high. Example:

Patagonia men's Wind Shield Hybrid on your used site, $72 https://www.rei.com/used/shop/mens-clothing/101436/Grecian+Blue

Same jacket on Patagonia's site, on sale: $74 http://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-wind-shield-hybrid-soft-shell-jacket/889833367272.html?CAWELAID=120226140000236259&gclid=Cj0KCQjwprbPBRCHARIsAF_7gDbPPPvZ4VyJVf3wGY1I545xcfJmfF7-pdLZOb3jqikciAxbUjRvXE4aAiKKEALw_wcB

A used piece should be XX% lower than a manufacturer's lowest sale price, not equal to it. It's a used piece, not a new piece. 

If someone were selling a used one of these jackets here on MP, they might ask $45 or $50, best guess.

I like Xander's suggestion, and would also add that even more specifics would be key. I think many of us are willing to use a slightly worn or even damaged item provided two things:

- We know EXACTLY how the condition of the product varies from a brand new one. Especially anything missing, damaged, or dirty.

- We have a high degree of confidence that the described variance is accurate and complete.

I understand that photographing individual items is probably prohibitive in terms of labor, but adding text descriptions should be a lot more feasible. After all, the item is being inspected anyway, and as far as I can tell items are listed individually, so why not make a few notes (which may be being taken by the inspector anyway) and post them with the description. Some examples of the kind of descriptions I would like to see:

- 'missing manual and maintenance kit (spare O-rings & lube)' - for stove

- 'missing two stakes and pole stuff sack, some dirt on rain fly' - tent

- 'jacket worn for two days according to customer, minor wrinkling and barely noticeable dirt on exterior' - jacket etc

- slight fraying on mesh shoulder straps, minor scuffing on pack bottom'

- 'missing sternum strap, otherwise like new'

These are probably aren't great examples, just off the top of my head. But I think you get the point. And not to beat a dead horse, but yest the prices really should be lower. Even if these suggestions are followed and you do everything right, there still is much more risk and uncertainty in buying a used product, and there needs to be a compelling reason to take that risk.

I love the concept of encouraging re-use and reducing waste of good gear. I'm not sure if it will pan out, but I wish you the best. Also kudos for seeking feedback from the outdoor community, that doesn't happen nearly enough, and it is much apprecieated!

Here's another key point: One of the biggest drawbacks to buying used gear is that we risk not being covered by the manufacturer's warranty. Especially in the outdoor industry, brands often have amazing warranties- many have essentially lifetime warranties and will repair or replace any damage that happens years later, even if it's our fault or normal 'wear and tear'. Often in practice brands will be more generous than their written policies state. This is a major factor in which brands I buy and it is a huge thing to give up for a relatively small savings. 

Here are some things you can do to help address this problem:

- State in the item's description what the manufacturer's policy is regarding warranty on buying the item used. 

- If the manufacturer will not honor the warranty for this product, try to make an arrangement with them to make an exception for items purchased through the REI program. I'm sure there's a way to make it beneficial in some way for them (i.e. good PR).

- If you can't convince the manufacturer to honor the warrantee, do it yourself- Have REI match whatever the warrantee would be if the item was purchased new.

- Also, the 30-day return policy is pretty short. Many of us are too busy / lazy / procrastinators to get around to packing up, going to the post office or UPS, and returning things in that time frame. We may not even have a chance to use the item during that time period, especially if it's a seasonal specific item. This time from should be increased to 90 days.

These suggestions may not be financially viable from REIs perspective, but it would go a long way towards mitigating the drawbacks of buying a used product.

This doesn't belong in the Classifieds section.

The site needs a ton of work. And I agree with others, prices are essentially what I can already get by shopping sales. No reason to buy used with only a 30 day return policy at these prices. 

This thread has gone about as well as that slap chalk bag one

Pants listed with inseam size and not waist size.