new Black Diamond Pilot Carabiner Choices

Just got the Black Diamond Pilot and was playing around with it and noticed a lot of inconsistency in the assisted braking function depending on the carabiner used. 

(tested with a 9.8 rope)

Petzl Attache: essentially not even activating the assisted brake

Black Diamond Vaporlock and Mini Pearabiner: hardly any better

Black Diamond Rocklock: slightly better, but the rope still slipped somewhat

Grivel Lambda K7G (twin gate): the only carabiner, of the ones pictured, that fully activated the Assisted brake function. 

It seems, from my short time with the Pilot, that a Round Stock (Lambda K7G, Metolius Element or Petzl Hera) locker is the best option to get the full function of the devise. 

I was wondering if anyone else had noticed anything similar to what I experienced. 

And just wanted to say something before a a lazy belayer accidentally drops someone because they think they are using an "automatic" braking device. 

How did you mock a fall? Describe your test set up please

Out of curiosity, how did you get your hands on a BD Pilot? AFAIK they haven't been released to the public.

Other manufacturers who sell a device with a similar mechanism of action have a specific carabiner they recommend (HMS Strike for the Jul devices, Concept HGL SC for the Click Up, HMS Belay for Salewa Ergo). It would surprise me a bit if the BD Pilot didn't also have a carabiner they recommend. Ostensibly it would be a BD carabiner.

My guess is it's designed to work with the BD Gridlock, as that's what they're promoting for use with their other belay devices.

Got my Pilot 2 days ago from Black Diamond.

Ordered my Pilot from the Black Diamond website. Got it 2 days ago.

David Kerkeslager wrote:

.My guess is it's designed to work with the BD Gridlock, as that's what they're promoting for use with their other belay devices.

Yes, indeed - they use BD Gridlock in their promotional video.

The geometry assisted assisted lockers seem to be very carabiner geometry specific. BD Gridlock has very interesting cross-section, perhaps that makes all the difference

David Kerkeslager wrote:

David, they have been released.

Now the decision - to buy or not to buy?! In reading at BD site, what makes the Pilot a "single pitch" device and the ATC not have this description?

Paul Deger wrote:

Now the decision - to buy or not to buy?! In reading at BD site, what makes the Pilot a "single pitch" device and the ATC not have this description?

Knowing nothing about the device (why am I even answering then? I don't know. At least I gave a disclaimer) it doesn't look like you can use it in guide mode, which is certainly a deal breaker for multi pitch.

Paul Deger wrote:

Now the decision - to buy or not to buy?! In reading at BD site, what makes the Pilot a "single pitch" device and the ATC not have this description?

Everyone knows pilots need clearance from the tower before going above 100'. /s

No guide mode (as it seems.  I haven't read the documentation) and no double strand raps are likely what makes BD call it a "single pitch" device.  People still bring grigris on mulitpitch.  Redirects and biner blocks are a thing, so do what you want.

Stephen D wrote:

Knowing nothing about the device (why am I even answering then? I don't know. At least I gave a disclaimer) it doesn't look like you can use it in guide mode, which is certainly a deal breaker for multi pitch.

If you are OK belaying off harness, is there any other reason not to use for multi- pitch?

Jake Jones wrote:

Why?

Probably because he likes to use guide mode when belaying from the top of the pitch on multi-pitch routes. It is quite handy. 

I suspect people have different ideas of "multipitch", which is what always leads to these debates. Running up Skywalker in Squamish is nowhere near comparable to a Cascades alpine route, but those are technically both multipitch. Maybe we should use the term "alpine" more?

I know that I would certainly bring a GriGri up the former, but not up the latter. And tbh I don't really understand the hype around the Pilot, just looks like a reworked Salewa Ergo, which is similar to the Jul2 and Smart. BD seems to be behind the curve here, unless the Pilot is capable of smoothly feeding out fat ropes and locking up on skinny ropes without having to use different carabiners. 

The benefits to the Pilot which I am interested in is that it seems like the unlocking motion doesn't require you to slip your hand inside a loop (like the Jul variants). The design does seem similar to the Ergo but I haven't been able to get one of those in the US.

That said, I'm pretty happy with my ClickUp and if the Pilot turns out to be better, it's unlikely to be a big improvement.

Stephen D wrote:

which is certainly a deal breaker for multi pitch.

Its being marketed as singlepitch only. 

They say it's meant more for single pitch routes since it's intended more for use on skinny ropes, and you can't perform a twin strand rappel with it. They also say it's smaller/lighter than the Smart and more intuitive than the Jul. I haven't used it yet but I prefer tube devices and I'm more inclined to using this than a grigri

Gavin W wrote:just looks like a reworked Salewa Ergo, which is similar to the Jul2 and Smart. 

I have found the Ergo to grabby when trying to fre up rope for leader. I currently like the MJ2 and debating if I want to drop $45 to try the Pilot.

I used a Pilot for a few days sport climbing this week and was curious to read this thread. The instructions do indeed suggest only a BD Gridlock or other HMS biner. I noted that using a BD Gridlock with it resulted in more inadvertent minor locking up while paying out slack to a leader ATC-style (not using the thumb lever to disengage it to pay out slack) while using it with an Omega Pacific Jake HMS biner was a lot smoother for ATC-style slack paying out. 

Both the Gridlock and the OP Jake did a fine job locking up during leader falls, though, and both worked equally fine while paying out slack fast using the thumb lever to disengage the device. 

Overall, I'm pretty psyched about the device. Ideal for single pitch cragging. Paying out slack ASAP with it is super easy and efficient and lowering the climber is smoother and easier to manage than a Gri Gri. Compared to my friend's Click Up device, the Pilot is way easier and faster to feed out slack. 

Jason Halladay wrote:

Overall, I'm pretty psyched about the device. Ideal for single pitch cragging. Paying out slack ASAP with it is super easy and efficient and lowering the climber is smoother and easier to manage than a Gri Gri. Compared to my friend's Click Up device, the Pilot is way easier and faster to feed out slack. 

This is what I was hoping to hear. :)

If the Grivel works best, but a Gridlock-type carabiner is recommended, perhaps the Grivel Clepsydra is the ideal solution. I do have an extra of these (new) if anyone wants to try one with the Pilot cheaply.

Paul Deger wrote:

Now the decision - to buy or not to buy?! In reading at BD site, what makes the Pilot a "single pitch" device and the ATC not have this description?

I wouldn't buy it at retail, and I've been eagerly awaiting the release for.years. My gym got a prototype I got to play with for a few months, it's great, but not for $50.