Enough bullshit lightweight down jackets

stolo wrote:

Get a softshell and put a warm layer underneath

Thing is I don't really want to layer.. I want to wear a tee shirt underneath and just put this on and off between my sick projie goes...

Rudy Peckham wrote:

I agree with Caesar.Salad Mountain Hardwear is the way to go but i don't think the SubZero is available anymore you can always try this bad boy but it's $800

Men's Absolute Zero Parka

This is not a jacket to wear around town or to the crag. It's for summit day on McKinley (or Everest). It's for belaying while your partner takes two hours to lead a WI5 route when it's -10, snowing, with 35mph sustained winds. You will look like the Michelin Man. I love mine, but it has a very specific purpose.

Lighter fabrics allow the down to loft better. I agree down products are fragile and favor synthetic jackets personally. The shells aren't any different but when you rip the synthetic jacket your insulation won't go flying everywhere. For sleeping bags down is obviously better, they get less abuse and they're bigger so the weight/packing advantage is more significant.

If you want a burly-ish down jacket Nunatak can make you one with an Epic shell. It's not backpack fabric but it's more durable than typical ~1oz shells. 

Pertex is the most widely used shell fabric. Chances are most of the jackets you're complaining about had a Pertex shell. Shield is a water resistant laminate, doubt it does much for durability. 

ben jammin wrote:

Thing is I don't really want to layer.. I want to wear a tee shirt underneath and just put this on and off between my sick projie goes...

My strategy has been a cheap synthetic down (mountain hardwear something at about $100, have 2 in different colors) with a warm turtleneck type synthetic shirt and a good warm hat. Unless uber windy, it's plenty warm zipped up down to about 30 or 20 F if moving. 

I got a Patagonia Adze hybrid hoody for this season though...sick of shredding jacket by hands when placing gear and wanted a hood. It's definitely not as warm so far around town as synthetic down, will have to see how is on rock this winter.

I bought a low end heavy down jacket years ago. It was supposed warm, thick material, and like $75.

I'd look at Big R or Cabela's. It might even have corduroy shoulders.

I know you explicitly said you don't want any "ultralight" bullshit, but the Patagonia Ultralight Down Sweater was made with climbers in mind, as they upped the abrasion resistance of the face fabric over their standard down jacket. The only reason it got named "ultralight" is because it has slightly less insulation than the standard model, making it lighter weight. Mine has lasted quite a while and the only time I have had to patch it was when I crashed into a tree while backcountry skiing. Its one of the few jackets I own that I actually feel like I can climb in it.

Buff Johnson wrote:

Cabellas, not for lightweight pussies and bullshit

but its for bouldering

;)

Patagonia occasionally makes a skier/snowboarder jacket that is down and has burly fabric.  It’s probably close to twice as heavy and burly as a comparable alpine climbing specific one.

You really should just go with a non-climbing brand if you want something burly. For example, the Eddie Baur down jackets seems pretty tough. 

Chris C. wrote:

You really should just go with a non-climbing brand if you want something burly. For example, the Eddie Baur down jackets seems pretty tough. 

I hear ya.. I just know what the expect with the outdoor industry so am weary to venture out.  

stolo wrote:

Get a softshell and put a warm layer underneath

This.   No need to buy more down.  Snag a canvas work jacket and throw it on over your down.  It's a cutting edge technique for dressing in the outdoors called "layering".  Here is a model made out of fire hose that has gusseted armpits.  https://m.duluthtrading.com/store/mens/mens-outerwear/mens-work-jackets/32205.aspx

Maybe this is the one... Eddie Bauer Peak Xv Down Jacket.

+1 for Rab.... The Neutrino Endurance is a badass down jacket. Not super light like a Cerium or Ghost Whisperer. The pertex shell makes a big difference. There is no comparison in the toughness of a Arcteryx Cerium or MH Ghost Whisperer face fabric and the Pertex face fabric. I wouldn't go bush whacking with either of them, but the pertex doesn't feel like it's going to rip to shreds when you rub up against something. The Cerium and GW both do. They use like 8D and 15D face fabrics... You can see the down through those jackets.

Chris C. wrote:

You really should just go with a non-climbing brand if you want something burly. For example, the Eddie Baur down jackets seems pretty tough. 

I was going to recommend Eddie Bauer too. I bought an Eddie Bauer down jacket last Christmas for my father-in-law, and remember the shell fabric feeling pretty burly. I almost wanted to buy one for myself, but I have a belay jacket already. Eddie Bauer won't give you any street cred at the crag like Patagonia or Arc'Teryx though, and we all know that there's nothing more important in life than looking really, really, REALLY good.

Eddie Bauer and the like are great choices.  My personal choice is to drop the "it's gotta be down" mentality and spend <$150 on an arctic quilt lined Carhartt for this purpose.  

I've got this jacket for skiing in sub zero temps. I'm a New England tree skier and rip through branches all day long with this thing on. Only once was it ripped, and when they repaired it for $30 I asked them to put on a beefier fabric where it ripped and they obliged. Best part is all you need is a tee-shirt and this puppy to be sweating in 0 deg temps. Has nice high collar to bury your face in, and the spray skirt keeps the wind out even if ur just walking around. Also a long cut so covers your legs and is waterproof. Given you're not skiing but worth a look.

http://www.marmot.com/men-jackets-and-vests-insulated/mountain-down-jacket/71640.html?cgid=men_jackets-and-vests_insulated&dwvar_71640_size=000020M&dwvar_71640_color=001#start=1

Hey Ben jammin,

Your request for 800 fill power at minimum and also a burly fabric isn't going to happen. The reason is because fill power is a measurement of how much down will rebound its loft after being compressed. The reason that jackets using high fill down, use light fabrics is because heavy fabrics compress the down and you don't obtain the loft.

If you spent the money on 900 fill down and put it in a shell fabric of Carhatt style duck canvas the weight of the fabric would compress the down and render it much lower fill power.

Smart companies like Rab know this and that's why they balance this with by using Pertex microlight fabric with 750 fill down.

Ask yourself this which sleeping bag is warmer?

A 0 degree synthetic bag

A 0 degree 600 fill down bag

A 0 degree 750 fill down bag

A 0 degree 850 fill down bag

They are all the same warmth because they are all rated to 0 degrees. The difference is in the weight of the bag and how compressible they will be.

If you want to be warm, look for a jacket with more down or more synthetic insulation.

Look for companies to tell you how much down in grams is in the jacket.

Examples:

Rab Neturino Endurance: 800FP European Goose Down (250g/9oz in size L)

Rab Zero G: 1000+FP R.D.S. Certified European Goose Down (130g/4.5oz size L)

Rab Asylum: 650FP R.D.S. Certified European Duck Down (365g/12.8oz in size M)

Rab Microlight: 750FP R.D.S. Certified European Goose Down (143g/5oz in Size L)

The Asylum has the lowest fill power but is actually the warmest of the group because it has the most down. (Neutrino will be close but thats because of its box baffle construction instead of sewn through but that's a whole other discussion.)

Morgan Patterson wrote:

I've got this jacket for skiing in sub zero temps. I'm a New England tree skier and rip through branches all day long with this thing on. Only once was it ripped, and when they repaired it for $30 I asked them to put on a beefier fabric where it ripped and they obliged. Best part is all you need is a tee-shirt and this puppy to be sweating in 0 deg temps. Has nice high collar to bury your face in, and the spray skirt keeps the wind out even if ur just walking around. Also a long cut so covers your legs too.

http://www.marmot.com/men-jackets-and-vests-insulated/mountain-down-jacket/71640.html?cgid=men_jackets-and-vests_insulated&dwvar_71640_size=000020M&dwvar_71640_color=001#start=1

Thanks Dude!  That's what I'm talking about... new frontrunner

ben jammin wrote:

Thanks Dude!  That's what I'm talking about... new frontrunner

and waterproof... so if it starts puking you and ur down will be dry.

I have a Mountain Hardware down puffy with burly fabric on the shoulder and arms. No idea the model name. I've had it for 10 years and going strong.