Slide in truck camper vs Built out Sprinter van? Any advice

Hi MP! 

I'm in the market for a new camping rig, and I'm struggling with making a decision for what to buy.  I'm planning on using this during the summer/shoulder seasons mostly, but might do some backcountry skiing in it too.I tend to stick to climbing campgrounds, although still need to get through roads like to turkey rocks and around moab into the towers.  I can only street park, but possible I can create a parking space near my small garage. I would like a small toilet in there, and some room for my pup to wander around. Here's what I've come up with trolling the craiglists that are on the table: 

1) Built out 2005 diesel sprinter van

 Pro: has solar, sink, skylight, fan, bed, low mileage. I can probably drive/park it easily. 

Con: small rust spots on the body and hood(how bad is this?), probably will need to rebuild some of the inside to fit my needs. Can only carry 2 (would prefer to have a room for an extra seat in case my sister borrows it for her family), but not essential. RWD. Expensive

2) Outfitter Apex 8 truck camper, (weight~ 2000lbs) http://www.outfittermfg.com/truck-campers/apex/32-apex-8 with power roof lift, power jacks, bathroom, queen bed, kitchen, Solar, excellent condition for~ 10 years old

Pro: luxury palace! Even has an oven, extra propane. Lower profile since it's a poptop so I can take it on rougher roads. Can use the truck for other things. Length with truck comes to about ~21 ft (22 ft is max for street parking). Outfitter is here in Colorado

Cons: has 2 ft sticking out from the back (is this a pro or con)?, don't know if I need a full bathroom, has black/grey/water tanks which I don't really want to deal with. Insulated canvas/basement but not sure how it will do in winter. Also it's pretty big once you stick it on a truck. And I need to buy a truck--at least a 3/4 or 1 ton, which I don't have right now (hoping to score a deal on a F350 4x4 diesel for <$10K)

Last option is to wait for a smaller/lighter pop-up camper. I debated hardtop for a while too, but I think it would be too big to park on my street easily. 

Thoughts?

I'm a huge fan of my built out hard top camper shell on my truck. It's perfect for my usage, and is pretty unobtrusive and minimal. Here's a couple of pics of the layout. It can sleep one or two people with the slide up platform, and lots of storage beneath the bed. Let me know if you have any questions!

cmqr9001 Black wrote:

I'm a huge fan of my built out hard top camper shell on my truck. It's perfect for my usage, and is pretty unobtrusive and minimal. Here's a couple of pics of the layout. It can sleep one or two people with the slide up platform, and lots of storage beneath the bed. Let me know if you have any questions!

That's a really great design, thanks for sharing!

I'm also starting to work on the weekend van thing, but I have to say I don't understand the toilet in a pop up or van. Shitting in your 100 SF of living space? No thanks. My husband can destroy a well ventilated house bathroom, I can't imagine what he'd do to a van at 2 am after eating camp burritos. Even in the dead of winter it's just not a big deal to head outside and wag bag it, or have the 5 gal bucket that lives at the site until you seal it up and leave.

I'm open to counter arguments!

Edit : Sorry, OP, did not mean to hijack, but that's just one of the big wtf question marks I have from my research.

I've had both a built out '05 Sprinter and a pop up truck camper. As you pointed out there are pros and cons to both. Short of having 80+k for a converted 4x4 Sprinter, there is not really a perfect vehicle that does it all.

The rusting on Sprinters from that era is very common. It's a big deal if it's around the window seams where you'll get leaks. Hard to say how bad it is without seeing it, but know that it will only get worse if you don't address it right away. I'll point out that Sprinters are terrible in snow. Unbelievably terrible. Like sliding off the road from a stopped position with chains on the tires. So if you want to go skiing, consider that. Also consider that repairs on Sprinters are very expensive and finding places to work on them isn't easy. One of the reasons I sold mine is because there isn't a place in my state that works on them. I had better luck being on the road because on the interstate you're often within striking distance of a Freightliner shop.

For long trips where you're fully living on the road, it's hard to beat the van. More room inside, easy access between cab and the back, way more storage. The downside is not being able to get far off road.

The truck camper is more work. Loading on and off is a pain no matter how easy they tell you it is. When you're thinking of going on an overnight, with the van it's easy to hop in and go. With the camper, you're thinking, "Is it worth the trouble for one night?" But, you have the benefit of driving your truck around town when it's off, hauling stuff, and room for 4. I went the truck/camper route after having a kid because we didn't have a third seat and seat belt in the van. Also, we travel less now. When I was living in the van for 6 months a year, it was ok to use as my daily driver the other 6 months. Now we take less trips and the camper works for us. 

The choice comes down to how much you're going to use it, for how long, and what your priorities are. Also cost, of course.

I'll second that the bathroom is a waste of space and a big hassle. They make small self-contained cassette toilets that look kinda OK but you wouldn't want to poop in it. What a mess. And if you're just going to pee in it, pee in a bottle. Or for ladies that struggle with that, get a large wide Tupperware, pee in it, then dump it out in the Walmart parking or wherever. If the full bathroom with flush toilet and running water is important, look into more traditional RV's and truck campers. Or travel trailers. You'll spend way less money taking a more traditional route. You can get one of those big 20 foot trailers with a full house inside for a few thousand dollars. Not that it's what you want...

Good luck! 

newrivermike wrote:

. I'll point out that Sprinters are terrible in snow. Unbelievably terrible. Like sliding off the road from a stopped position with chains on the tires. So if you want to go skiing, consider that. Also consider that repairs on Sprinters are very expensive and finding places to work on them isn't easy. One of the reasons I sold mine is because there isn't a place in my state that works on them. I had better luck being on the road because on the interstate you're often within striking distance of a Freightliner shop.

For long trips where you're fully living on the road, it's hard to beat the van. More room inside, easy access between cab and the back, way more storage. The downside is not being able to get far off road.

The truck camper is more work. Loading on and off is a pain no matter how easy they tell you it is. When you're thinking of going on an overnight, with the van it's easy to hop in and go. With the camper, you're thinking, "Is it worth the trouble for one night?" But, you have the benefit of driving your truck around town when it's off, hauling stuff, and room for 4. I went the truck/camper route after having a kid because we didn't have a third seat and seat belt in the van. Also, we travel less now. When I was living in the van for 6 months a year, it was ok to use as my daily driver the other 6 months. Now we take less trips and the camper works for us. 

The choice comes down to how much you're going to use it, for how long, and what your priorities are. Also cost, of course

Thanks for the advice, I didn't realize they were so bad in snow. 

It's funny that the toilet is the big piece of contention here. I have friends with a cassette toilet in their Sprinter vans and have had little to no issues with the smell; they stop at an RV stop to dump it, but have also used their toilet as well. Honestly, that wouldn't bother me as much as having a piece of tupperwear with pee in it rolling around my vehicle (and have you read Julie Ellison's post on Climbing.com on accidentally drinking the pee bottle? (shudder) But I do agree that having a lots of space dedicated to a bathroom in your vehicle is not great and wouldn't be my first option. Another Con against the truck camper. 

Get the Outfitter and buy an old school 4WD diesel truck, you won't regret it. Something to be aware of, the Apex is heavy for a popup, likely more than the 2000 pounds they may claim. Also a bit top heavy for a popup, since it sits higher in the truck than most popups. It will do fine in the winter for rock climbing trips, but will be chilly if you took it on an ice climbing trip.

We had the same dilemma recently and decided that the most versatile arrangement is to buy (or build) a flat bed for a truck then purchase a popup camper that can be mounted on the flat bed.  This maximizes the amount of space while maintaining your off-road capabilities.  Granted, we went this route because we're wanting enough room for the two of us, our daughter and a 50 lb dog. Check out four-wheel campers and Phoenix Campers.  We are getting a Phoenix (made in Denver) and have been really impressed with the quality of their builds.  However, they have a huge back log on production.  

http://www.fourwh.com/product/fleet-flat-bed-popup-truck-camper-tray-tacoma/

http://phoenixpopup.com/base-models/

Edit to add:  If possible get a camper with an aluminum frame.  They are typically much lighter and do a lot better on rough roads.  The last thing you want is to crack a wooden frame while 4-wheeling! Both Four Wheel and Phoenix use aluminum frames. 

You would have to get real aggro to crack a wood frame on a well built camper. BTW aluminum can also crack at the weld. That said, wood rot sucks, so I agree with aluminum being a better option. My wood frame camper is 13 years old and not a problem, but I have always lived in dry climates.

I'm a huge fan of my built out hard top camper shell on my truck. It's perfect for my usage, and is pretty unobtrusive and minimal. Here's a couple of pics of the layout. It can sleep one or two people with the slide up platform, and lots of storage beneath the bed. Let me know if you have any questions!

What's that material you are using for your bed? It looks like a foam covered plywood board? I'm looking for something exactly like that because my particle board sucks and is heavy and sheds splinters everywhere. Is it light and can it support body weight on top?

newrivermike wrote:

 Also consider that repairs on Sprinters are very expensive and finding places to work on them isn't easy. One of the reasons I sold mine is because there isn't a place in my state that works on them. I had better luck being on the road because on the interstate you're often within striking distance of a Freightliner shop.

Also parts availability, it's not uncommon to need a part ordered in from Germany. If you're traveling this can be a major PITA. One of my friends sold their Sprinter and went with a promaster after some horrible times with service. As a pro they also said that the FWD promaster does much better in snow than their sprinter did. 

Mick S wrote:

Get the Outfitter and buy an old school 4WD diesel truck, you won't regret it. Something to be aware of, the Apex is heavy for a popup, likely more than the 2000 pounds they may claim. Also a bit top heavy for a popup, since it sits higher in the truck than most popups. It will do fine in the winter for rock climbing trips, but will be chilly if you took it on an ice climbing trip.

Yes, I'm worried about the height and weight for sure. Do you park your truck with the camper on the street? One of my big concerns is that I only have street parking right now for this rig so it can't be too massive. 

As an aside, luckily I live very close to a Mercedes Benz repair shop :) 

1. 
2. Four wheel campers are hard to find but very light weight,durable , and functional.  This model can even go on a tacoma with airbags.

I'm buying out a camper van now and after seeing my friends slide in camper, am seriously considering selling our half-built project and getting one. Building out a camper is a TON of work - it's been a year now for us. He bought his on Craigslist and was camping the following weekend. He also has everything you could want. It's nice and it was $1200. With the truck too, that's about what we spent in total. Just my 2 cents, have fun whatever you do!

I have a Sprinter. Get the truck + camper unless you're going full-time van.

The Sprinter will have far more room but wont come with all the prefabs and equipment that the camper shell has. The Sprinter will also be stealthier as it just looks like a cargo van whereas the camper shell clearly indicates the vehicle is for RV use. Dont underestimate how long it takes to build out a fully pimped Sprinter if you want everything to be professional and legit. Some people spend upwards of a year building a camping van if they are trying to do it right. Even if you rush everything and do the minimal, it will still take quite some time.

Also keep in mind Sprinters are extremely expensive to maintain and fix. I know guys with sprinters made in the 2000s who have them in the shop every month and regularly drop thousands trying to fix it (even themselves). They are all around expensive and unreliable vehicles. 

Get a domestic vehicle. Getting repairs on the road will be a lot easier. 

check out ,wander the west.com.they have a used camper page.I bought a used four wheel pop up,carry it on a four door,long bed Tacoma and love it.no matter what brand you buy be prepared to install airbags and beefier tires.go for a bigger camper / truck setup if you need more room.nice to be able to take camper off and use truck for a daily driver , most people I know with sprinters need two cars.

newrivermike wrote:

 I'll point out that Sprinters are terrible in snow. Unbelievably terrible. Like sliding off the road from a stopped position with chains on the tires. So if you want to go skiing, consider that. Also consider that repairs on Sprinters are very expensive and finding places to work on them isn't easy. 

Good luck in your decision of what vehicle to get! There is no perfect option, if there was - we would all be doing it. Personally, I took the main flow of Subaru Outback -> Tacoma with a built in bed -> Sprinter. 

Politely, I must dispel the myth/misconception quoted above. Sprinter vans are not bad in the snow. Period. And the idea of a Promaster being better than a Sprinter or vice versa is silly. Imagine if I came on this forum and made a comment like, "Chocks will always be way better than cams in all situations." It would show some serious bias mixed in with a lack of real experience. 

Two and a half things: 1) It doesn't even matter if you get the RWD or the 4x4. If you want to drive in the winter you have to get a modern (less than 5 years old) dedicated winter snow tire. Don't get studs. It's uneccesary with the modern tires, and it's actually more dangerous for 90% of the driving you will be doing in winter. 2) A sprinter/promaster is a professional, working vehicle - it is designed to have hundreds of pounds in cargo over the rear axle. If you do not have literally hundreds of pounds over the rear axle it is going to be dangerous. 2.5) Most of us buying a van are used to driving with a traction control system calibrated by the manufacturer for our vehicle, this is super useful and takes a lot of the thinking out of driving. The light goes green: stomp on the gas. The light goes red: stomp on the brake. These systems are not as developed/as effective in both versions of these vans. You have to think more about what you are doing.

Sprinters are not any different from any other vehicle in the snow. It is operator error. If you haven't spent a long time driving in the snow (days in the thousands) a sprinter will accentuate any errors that you are making. That's fine - just slow down and think about the box of steel in which you are hurling down an icy sheet at speeds previously unimaginable to our forefathers...

PSA: The BFG KO2, while given the mountain/snow flake symbol, isn't a dedicated winter snow tire - I don't know how BFG bought that rating, I have them too, but don't use them in winter.

I'll chime in here.  I have a 2011 Toyota Tacoma with a cap over the standard 6' bed.  I've built a sleeping platform in the back, raised over the wheel wells to provide storage underneath. 

It was adequate, but a bit of a pain to get in and out of, as well as not much headroom, and there's storage limits too.   In addition, I also used a Kelly SUV awning for bug and weather protection.

This spring I purchased an Astro Cargo van.  I built out the back with a bench that also pulls out as a full size bed, and hung eye bolts on the sides to hang gear/clothing. We use a Coleman propane stove/oven combo, and a 12volt refrigerator sits between the seats.  I still use the SUV awning out the back for cooking.  I also fabricated a swivel base for the passenger seat so it spins 180 facing the cargo area.

A top rail set up is in the plans for a Thule box and bike rack.

Having used the rig several times on some New England climbing jaunts, I'm totally jazzed on it.  Way more convenient than the 'yota/cap combo as a group of 4 can easily chill in the cargo area.  My GF luvs the full size bed

Personally I'd build out a van, and really doesn't have to be a Sprinter. If clearance is an issue most van bodies can be raised rather inexpensively

My .02