Most Dangerous Place to Climb

Today's recent scare going on at Tahquitz has me wondering. Stories for days on accidents there. Is Tahquitz the most dangerous place to climb? 

  Now I don't know what it's like in other words parts of the country or the world, I stay pretty close to California, but what are your opinions, experiences. What makes a place dangerous? Is it rock fall? Crowds? Bad pro? Bad bolts Isolation? Area? Animals? 

Would alpine climbs always be more dangerous? Everest is very dangerous for obvious reasons, but I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of crags, or sport/trad/bouldering rock climbing. Not so much ice climbing or mixed. 

 Thanks for the input, really curious to know your opinions and I think this could make a good reference for those who may be planning trips to special places. 

 Or just shoot this post down MP style and say that it's not location that matters, but more the route. 

The most popular places are always going to have the most accidents. Tahquitz certianly fits this criterion. I think that's all there is here. 

To elaborate a bit, I think that the most popular and well-known places are more likely to attract beginners, who are more likely to get into trouble through a lack of experience. 

If you are interested in which climbing areas have the highest percentage of climbers who visit that get hurt alpine areas with tons of objective hazard win hands down. In terms of smaller rock crags, it's less clear. Tahquitz, if it does have a disproportionate number of accidents, is probably so because it's an accessible moderate trad climbing area, and the jump from sport climbing and top-roping to trad (especially multipitch) is probably more dangerous in my mind than the jump from indoor climbing to well-bolted single pitch sport climbing.

Inside of an active volcano? 

ViperScale wrote:

Inside of an active volcano? 

Oooh?! Can I do that? Can we swap pitches ViperScale? I'm down for sure!!! This post isn't just for my concern or others. I'm cautious because I'm older and have a child. But I still have a lot of drive. 

Here's another thought, would the north face of Tahquitz be more dangerous because it's less steep than other areas? Meaning that loose rock would tend to settle on a less degree of slope than something more vertical where loose rock wouldn't last as long? Once again establishing that the stronger climbers have a better fall. 

Joe Garibay wrote:

Oooh?! Can I do that? Can we swap pitches ViperScale? I'm down for sure!!! This post isn't just for my concern or others. I'm cautious because I'm older and have a child. But I still have a lot of drive. 

I am game but we need a go-pro that can survive lava so encase we don't make it we have a film of the attempt.

ViperScale wrote:

I am game but we need a go-pro that can survive lava so encase we don't make it we have a film of the attempt.

I got a drone guy!

Most dangerous place?  A venue where you are not experienced/don't have a clue.  Gym rat outdoors.  Sport climber on trad (and interestingly visa versa).  Warrior's Way folks in the alpine.  On and On...

Eric Engberg wrote:

Most dangerous place?  A venue where you are not experienced/don't have a clue.  Gym rat outdoors.  Sport climber on trad (and interestingly visa versa).  Warrior's Way folks in the alpine.  On and On...

Eric, so you're saying a trad climber that has never sport climbed would be a dangerous situation? That is interesting. Something that I've never thought of. Do you know or are you someone that has gone this path? I think it's rare to find someone like that but I don't think impossible. I would think that they would be pumping out on slabby crimps risking a cheese grater fall onto a possible ledge. That would be the danger in this scenario perhaps. 

And definitley any gym climber going outside. That may be the most dangerous thing we are facing these years. 

Joe Garibay wrote:

Today's recent scare going on at Tahquitz has me wondering. Stories for days on accidents there. Is Tahquitz the most dangerous place to climb? 

  Now I don't know what it's like in other words parts of the country or the world, I stay pretty close to California, but what are your opinions, experiences. What makes a place dangerous? Is it rock fall? Crowds? Bad pro? Bad bolts Isolation? Area? Animals? 

Would alpine climbs always be more dangerous? Everest is very dangerous for obvious reasons, but I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of crags, or sport/trad/bouldering rock climbing. Not so much ice climbing or mixed. 

 Thanks for the input, really curious to know your opinions and I think this could make a good reference for those who may be planning trips to special places. 

 Or just shoot this post down MP style and say that it's not location that matters, but more the route. 

It might be...but it's because of the people, not the rock.

I have climbing every single route on the North Face including pitches not in the book. There are death blocks everywhere. However, I have NEVER knocked anything off anywhere nor have I ever seen rock just fall by itself. I have climbed maybe 80%+ of T&S and this holds true for all the other routes too.

I can't speak about today's incident obviously but 9/10 times, and I'm only with holding 10/10 for shit must happen sometimes purposes, it's the climbers that make the mistake. I chalk this up to that Idyllwild is a way too accessible alpine environment. The choss on anything in the sierras is way worse but it takes more of a plan and a commitment to get to those routes. The inexperienced don't go there. In Idyllwild any chuffer can wake up hungover in LA and be on Tahquitz by mid-morning. It's fucking scary what I see every weekend up there and it's a miracle more people don't die.

Joe and Eric, I almost fit that profile as I learned to climb back in the 70s and 80s, then quit for 30 some years and just came back into the tribe about two years ago not really knowing what sport climbing was. Just as I was getting back into the climbing thing again, a guy in Barcelona took pity on me and invited me out for some one-pitch sport climbing on a local limestone crag (that I thought looked like a choss pile as we walked up to it--where are the granite splitters???). I remember him asking me to hang some draws on the next route over as he lowered me down since he wanted to lead it. First, I thought it was weird that he wanted to pre-place the draws, and...I had no idea what he was doing when, as he led up that route, he unclipped the draws I had kindly placed for him and oriented them the "correct" direction. I also didn't really know any cool, specific technique to "clean" an anchor. He had me clean and rap on the last climb we did and I just did whatever seemed right to get it done--it likely wasn't precisely one of the normal methods we all know and love (and debate), but I think I was safe. Also, I was totally pumped out after just two 50' routes since I wasn't in any kind of shape yet (no finger strength at all). I'm sure he thought I was a royal buffoon up there in my new high-top, lace-up, trad shoes, and I guess I was. I think a trad guy/gal doing sport for the first time will likely be generally safe--he/she will just do very weird, unconventional things (as viewed by the sportster). As to most dangerous crag, I vote the Camel's Head of Camelback Mountain in downtown Phoenix--crappy rock in many places and close proximity to  large population.

Daniel Joder wrote:

Joe and Eric, I almost fit that profile as I learned to climb back in the 70s and 80s, then quit for 30 some years and just came back into the tribe about two years ago not really knowing what sport climbing was. Just as I was getting back into the climbing thing again, a guy in Barcelona took pity on me and invited me out for some one-pitch sport climbing on a local limestone crag (that I thought looked like a choss pile as we walked up to it--where are the granite splitters???). I remember him asking me to hang some draws on the next route over as he lowered me down since he wanted to lead it. First, I thought it was weird that he wanted to pre-place the draws, and...I had no idea what he was doing when, as he led up that route, he unclipped the draws I had kindly placed for him and oriented them the "correct" direction. I also didn't really know any cool, specific technique to "clean" an anchor. He had me clean and rap on the last climb we did and I just did whatever seemed right to get it done--it likely wasn't precisely one of the normal methods we all know and love (and debate), but I think I was safe. Also, I was totally pumped out after just two 50' routes since I wasn't in any kind of shape yet (no finger strength at all). I'm sure he thought I was a royal buffoon up there in my new high-top, lace-up, trad shoes, and I guess I was. I think a trad guy/gal doing sport for the first time will likely be generally safe--he/she will just do very weird, unconventional things (as viewed by the sportster). As to most dangerous crag, I vote the Camel's Head of Camelback Mountain in downtown Phoenix--crappy rock in many places and close proximity to  large population.

I've climbed Camelback. It's really fucking bad, so bad that people don't even get on it though.

I took a guy on his first multi-pitch climb a few weeks ago. He mainly does like V6ish bouldering and rarely climbs rope. The first 3 pitches of 5.4 / 5.5 mostly slightly slab climbing scared him to death. The 4th 5.7 pitch of slightly slab with a final slab section with no holds scared him to death. The final 5th 5.9 pitch which was mostly vertical / overhanging he was completely relaxed and fine with.

Tradiban wrote:

It might be...but it's because of the people, not the rock.

I have climbing every single route on the North Face including pitches not in the book. There are death blocks everywhere. However, I have NEVER knocked anything off anywhere nor have I ever seen rock just fall by itself. I have climbed maybe 80%+ of T&S and this holds true for all the other routes too.

I can't speak about today's incident obviously but 9/10 times, and I'm only with holding 10/10 for shit must happen sometimes purposes, it's the climbers that make the mistake. I chalk this up to that Idyllwild is a way too accessible alpine environment. The choss on anything in the sierras is way worse but it takes more of a plan and a commitment to get to those routes. The inexperienced don't go there. In Idyllwild any chuffer can wake up hungover in LA and be on Tahquitz by mid-morning. It's fucking scary what I see every weekend up there and it's a miracle more people don't die.

People for sure! I've always been a light stepper and check before I pull. Balance over brut. But some of my friends will yank terribly on holds. Finesse is important 

Daniel Joder wrote:

Joe and Eric, I almost fit that profile as I learned to climb back in the 70s and 80s, then quit for 30 some years and just came back into the tribe about two years ago not really knowing what sport climbing was. Just as I was getting back into the climbing thing again, a guy in Barcelona took pity on me and invited me out for some one-pitch sport climbing on a local limestone crag (that I thought looked like a choss pile as we walked up to it--where are the granite splitters???). I remember him asking me to hang some draws on the next route over as he lowered me down since he wanted to lead it. First, I thought it was weird that he wanted to pre-place the draws, and...I had no idea what he was doing when, as he led up that route, he unclipped the draws I had kindly placed for him and oriented them the "correct" direction. I also didn't really know any cool, specific technique to "clean" an anchor. He had me clean and rap on the last climb we did and I just did whatever seemed right to get it done--it likely wasn't precisely one of the normal methods we all know and love (and debate), but I think I was safe. Also, I was totally pumped out after just two 50' routes since I wasn't in any kind of shape yet (no finger strength at all). I'm sure he thought I was a royal buffoon up there in my new high-top, lace-up, trad shoes, and I guess I was. I think a trad guy/gal doing sport for the first time will likely be generally safe--he/she will just do very weird, unconventional things (as viewed by the sportster). As to most dangerous crag, I vote the Camel's Head of Camelback Mountain in downtown Phoenix--crappy rock in many places and close proximity to  large population.

Great story! Glad you're getting at it again. 

Thanks, Joe. Your name sounds familiar. Did I sell you my size 14 wide Butora Altura's for some awful off-width thing you were working on? Or do I have you confused with someone else? Detour over...back to the OP...

The Wrangell....even the planes coming into the glacier valleys get smoked there. 

Daniel Joder wrote:

Thanks, Joe. Your name sounds familiar. Did I sell you my size 14 wide Butora Altura's for some awful off-width thing you were working on? Or do I have you confused with someone else? Detour over...back to the OP...

Haha. Nope. I'm regular person sized. But I do want to do some awful off-width. 

Joe Garibay wrote:

Eric, so you're saying a trad climber that has never sport climbed would be a dangerous situation? That is interesting. Something that I've never thought of. Do you know or are you someone that has gone this path? I think it's rare to find someone like that but I don't think impossible. I would think that they would be pumping out on slabby crimps risking a cheese grater fall onto a possible ledge. That would be the danger in this scenario perhaps. 

And definitley any gym climber going outside. That may be the most dangerous thing we are facing these years. 

I started climbing trad before sport, and I wouldn't say that the transition was dangerous at all. There were definitely a lot of things to learn, but nothing that I think could have led to a serious accident. Things like looking out when close to the ground (first 2-3 bolts) are things you think about when you're on trad too. As far as new safety concerns go when switching from trad to sport, it was just that people fall a lot more often and back clipping is a thing

I think the most dangerous location for climbers is somewhere between adolescence and adulthood.  It's sort-of the difference between climbers who have been be-night-ed and those who have not.  It's not dangerous until it is.  Climbing like a guy with a wife and kids, is a lot different than climbing like a 20-year-old.   

Yep.  I was climbing trad before sport.  I first placed trad gear back in high school before I even knew that people put bolts in cliffs.