Choosing a belay device

Hi guys, I've been climbing for several months with my partners' stuff, and now I've decided to buy my own rope and belay device.

Here the most common devices are the grigri and the cinch. I really love the latter, but unfortunately it is no more available nor is the vergo. Considering I seriousliy dislike the feel of the grigri, I started looking for other devices with some kind of assist in blocking (yes, I'm aware of the 2 official category, but we can't really compare a plain tuber to, e.g., a Click Up).

I've read a lot about smart, mega jul and click up, and the most appealing device to me is the click up, as it shouldn't require any tecnique different from classic tubers. On the same time, the mega jul and its multiple uses, really appeal me. I've no plan on doing multipitch soon, but you never know. This led to me to the Alpine Up. I can buy it for just 15€ more than the Click Up,  but would it handle ropes in 9.4-9.8 range the same as the Click Up? Would it be worthy?

I've not read little to nothing about devices like camp matik, lifeguard and eddy, but they don't seem to be a huge improvement over the grigri, am I right?

Shard Climber wrote:

Hi guys, I've been climbing for several months with my partners' stuff, and now I've decided to buy my own rope and belay device.

Here the most common devices are the grigri and the cinch. I really love the latter, but unfortunately it is no more available nor is the vergo. Considering I seriousliy dislike the feel of the grigri, I started looking for other devices with some kind of assist in blocking (yes, I'm aware of the 2 official category, but we can't really compare a plain tuber to, e.g., a Click Up).

I've read a lot about smart, mega jul and click up, and the most appealing device to me is the click up, as it shouldn't require any tecnique different from classic tubers. On the same time, the mega jul and its multiple uses, really appeal me. I've no plan on doing multipitch soon, but you never know. This led to me to the Alpine Up. I can buy it for just 15€ more than the Click Up,  but would it handle ropes in 9.4-9.8 range the same as the Click Up? Would it be worthy?

I've not read little to nothing about devices like camp matik, lifeguard and eddy, but they don't seem to be a huge improvement over the grigri, am I right?

Just learn to use the grigri, there's a reason it's the standard assisted belay device.  Once you get used to it it will be just fine.

Seriously buy a mega Jul. I bought the Jul 2 single tuber and I REALLY REALLY like it for gym climbing, lead belaying, single line rappelling.

The thumb catch action is AWESOME. I absolutely hate regular tubers now. For lead climbing it is SO MUCH easier to feed slack incredibly quickly with none of the rope getting hung up in the device or having to do a "feed -shuffle" to smooth the give of slack (which is slower, and can cause short roping).

 No in retrospect I wish I had the mega Jul because it is double tuber, can be used more easily for rappel, and also has guide mode/tip belay. For a cheap belay device you will not get a better deal.

Other than the Jul 2 I use grigris. My gym mandates them for basic belay (on anchor) until folks learn "advanced belay" (off anchor and with alternate devices aka tubes). I've never used any of the other grigri copies (Matic, click up,eddy,vergo,alpine up)

I personally might get a mega Jul anyway. I already have a grigri1 (which btw I prefer to the grigri2 as long as rope size is appropriate) and Jul 2

mega Jul as my main rappel device and guide mode. Jul 2 for lead belaying. And grigri for...well...relaxed use, TR and I use it as a self belay on fixed lines alongside an ascender for route setting at the gym etc

I've been waiting for the ATC Pilot to become available..

Check it out

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi58t6Ts_LVAhUHJCYKHRWED9MQtwIIQTAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZj3TeFxUG2c&usg=AFQjCNE4YwjH_fOLABn7qKAS1W971xJqGA

There are several post on MP regarding it..

Brian Malone wrote:

I've been waiting for the ATC Pilot to become available..

Check it out

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi58t6Ts_LVAhUHJCYKHRWED9MQtwIIQTAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZj3TeFxUG2c&usg=AFQjCNE4YwjH_fOLABn7qKAS1W971xJqGA

There are several post on MP regarding it..

Have you tried the JUL 2?

Unless there are added features I'm pretty sure the pilot just copied the JUL (correction, the Jul, smart, and SRC)

Alpine Up is a good device. I've fondled it.

I've got a Mega Jul but feel that other assisted braking devices such as the Smart or Alpine Up perform better and are safer in some situations. There's a big discussion on this site about the flaws of the Mega Jul. 

Edit: Dusty linked the thread below 

Not sure what your main climbing activity is like, but here is an interesting nerd thread pertaining to the issue.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/109133730/edelrid-megajul-belay-device

Edit: I think this is the abovementioned thread.

Beean wrote:

Alpine Up is a good device. I've fondled it.

I've got a Mega Jul but feel that other assisted braking devices such as the Smart or Alpine Up perform better and are safer in some situations. There's a big discussion on this site about the flaws of the Mega Jul. 

The alpine up seems superior but it's also 2-3 times the cost. Is much larger too.

I'm not super familiar with flaws of the mega Jul tho.

And the smart is known to be kinda an "all or nothing" braking assist, once you release it it doesn't really help brake the rope whereas others have more degrees of braking force while releasing

Jef Anstey wrote:

The alpine up seems superior but it's also 2-3 times the cost. Is much larger too.

I'm not super familiar with flaws of the mega Jul tho.

And the smart is known to be kinda an "all or nothing" braking assist, once you release it it doesn't really help brake the rope whereas others have more degrees of braking force while releasing

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that the amount of friction provided by the Smart does not stop a rope slipping, and that other assisted braking devices do prevent a rope slipping?

My main activity is outdoor lead climbing in single pitch routes. We typically use single ropes in 9.4 - 9.8 range.

Regarding the pilot, it just seems exactly like the salewa ergo, and close to the smart and the megajul. When you say that "the smart is known to be kinda an "all or nothing" braking assist", why do you limit it to the smart, when the others look pretty similar in the concept and the tecniques to unlock it?

Regarding the prices, I just want to say that "The alpine up seems superior but it's also 2-3 times the cost" is just false. I can't find the steel bundle of the mega jul for anything lower than 45€, and the alpine up is around 65-70€. It's obviously higher but far from 2-3 times.

I agree with Ken, learn to use a Grigri. And if you don't already know how, learn to use a standard, non-assisted braking ATC. Some day you'll leave your belay device at home and 9 times out of 10 someone will hand you a Grigri or ATC to use.

I use both a MegaJul and a Grigri 2. The Grigri is my go-to device for basically everything. I like the MegaJul, but it tends to get really hot and rappelling on it can be nightmarish--half the time I rappel with it I end up more pumped from keeping it from locking than the actual climbing.

Beean wrote:

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that the amount of friction provided by the Smart does not stop a rope slipping, and that other assisted braking devices do prevent a rope slipping?

No I mean for lowering...once you attempt to disengage the "lock" it goes from lots of braking to very little braking 

The Jul 2 for example has a nice variable range of braking when lowering based on the angle you tilt or the amount you pull up on the thumb catch

As for catching falls I can't compare their braking strengths

I saw the alpine up listed somewhere for $89 and I've seen the mega Jul as low as $30 (but likely closer to $40-45

Wild Country Revo looks to be a game changer, you'll need to wait until late 2017 or early 2018 since the exclusive preorders through REI are all gone now. 

Grigri2. End of story. Ubiquitous for a reason. 

Go for a grigri 2 bomber versatile and the gold standard for a reason. (though probably not for much longer with the Revo coming out)

Jef Anstey wrote:

No I mean for lowering...once you attempt to disengage the "lock" it goes from lots of braking to very little braking 

The Jul 2 for example has a nice variable range of braking when lowering based on the angle you tilt or the amount you pull up on the thumb catch

As for catching falls I can't compare their braking strengths

Gotcha.

Shard Climber wrote:

I've read a lot about smart, mega jul and click up, and the most appealing device to me is the click up, as it shouldn't require any tecnique different from classic tubers. On the same time, the mega jul and its multiple uses, really appeal me. I've no plan on doing multipitch soon, but you never know. This led to me to the Alpine Up. I can buy it for just 15€ more than the Click Up,  but would it handle ropes in 9.4-9.8 range the same as the Click Up? Would it be worthy?

I've not read little to nothing about devices like camp matik, lifeguard and eddy, but they don't seem to be a huge improvement over the grigri, am I right?

I've used the Click Up a bunch, and you should be aware that "it shouldn't require any technique different from classic tubers" isn't really true. The technique is similar, but it takes some practice to prevent the device from "clicking up" while feeding out slack. It's definitely better than the GriGri about not locking up at inconvenient times, though. The technique is very similar to a tuber, and I think you wouldn't notice any difference between the Click Up technique and the tuber technique when belaying toprope.

I haven't used the Alpine Up, but my understanding from research I did a while back was that the Alpine Up was intended for half ropes, so it would perform poorly on thicker single ropes.

Devices with similar assisted-braking mechanisms to the Click Up are the Edelrid Jul (Mega Jul, Micro Jul, and Jul 2), the Salewa Ergo, Mammut Smart, and the (yet unreleased) BD ATC Pilot. Reviews of the Jul2 seem fairly positive in that it seems to feed slack to the leader better than the Click Up, but I can't say this from experience, and I also don't like that the wire goes around the "thumb hook", which seems like it would be fiddly--the ATC Pilot seems better in this respect. Right now I'm considering getting the Jul2, but I may just hold out for the Pilot or Revo.

Ken Noyce wrote:

Just learn to use the grigri, there's a reason it's the standard assisted belay device.  Once you get used to it it will be just fine.

+1 Gri Gri, a guide mode tubular, and a munter will get through anything.  

Like Ken said there's a reason it's they are so popular.  I have a Gri 1 and a Petzl Reverso and have never felt a need to get something else.  Plus since the majority of people have/know how to use those devices it just makes sense.  

*Lowering/Rappelling with a Gri (or any single rope device) is simple just use a biner block and go down one strand and your partner can just as easily use both strands if they have a tube device and then pull and go. (as with everything situation will dictate practicality but it's pretty much my go too unless I'm worried about the rope getting stuck)

Apsu wrote:

I agree with Ken, learn to use a Grigri. And if you don't already know how, learn to use a standard, non-assisted braking ATC. Some day you'll leave your belay device at home and 9 times out of 10 someone will hand you a Grigri or ATC to use.

I use both a MegaJul and a Grigri 2. The Grigri is my go-to device for basically everything. I like the MegaJul, but it tends to get really hot and rappelling on it can be nightmarish--half the time I rappel with it I end up more pumped from keeping it from locking than the actual climbing.

Also learn how to belay with a Munter hitch.  You just need a carabiner, and it's incredibly easy.  You know, just in case.

Apsu wrote:

I use both a MegaJul and a Grigri 2. The Grigri is my go-to device for basically everything. I like the MegaJul, but it tends to get really hot and rappelling on it can be nightmarish--half the time I rappel with it I end up more pumped from keeping it from locking than the actual climbing.

For rapping on the MegaJul, unless you really want the auto-lock on rap, you can just flip it, and then it raps like a regular tube device.