Continue with onX Maps
Sign in with Facebook
Best way to feed slack fast through a grigri ?
|
This pertains to lead belaying with a grigri. The recommended* method ( youtube.com/watch?v=FHdqjjy… 3:45 - 3:50) uses the thumb to temporarily disable the cam. The duration for which the cam is disabled should be minimized. It seems that duration could be reduced further by feeding slack ATC-style. That is, first moving the braking hand far back to form a loop of slack below the device. Then putting the thumb on the cam while pulling slack thorugh the device with the free hand. The overall time during which the cam is disabled seems shorter with this method. I can think of two reasons this optimization is not recommended: 1) It may take longer to feed slack if your right thumb has trouble finding the grigri's cam (which likely has to be done twice to give enough slack for clipping high). 2) Perhaps hurrying to place the thumb on the cam can cause the belayer to hit their braking hand on the grigri and let go of the rope. Wondering if anybody else has thought about this. ---- * The real recommended method is to avoid the need to feed slack fast (e.g. by carefully managing the rope and/or belayer position). The scope of this topic is those situations when that is not enough. |
|
I'm with you and raise you by 5 to 15... |
|
FFS... What you will need to do depends largely on your rope diameter. When belaying with my skinny sport rope (9.4 mm), I never use my thumb on a Grigri2. When belaying with anything over 9.8mm, I might sometimes need to always use my thumb when feeding slack...the key is to release the thumb and return to the brake position when you're not feeding slack and to practice this until it becomes second nature. You should know exactly what you'll be doing as soon as you put your partner on belay. |
|
Best way to lead belay with a GriGri is to use an ATC. |
|
Creating a loop of slack between your brake hand and the Grigri can be counterproductive. If you're going to do it ATC style you want to keep the rope feeding into the Grigri relatively straight and feeding in a slightly downward direction; you're kind of pushing it in while simultaneously pulling it through. If you do it right you don't have to depress the lever. Easier with a skinny rope but I can do it with my 10.1. Also helps to have the rope flaked well and just behind your right hip so tension from the pile is minimized. |
Serge Smirnov wrote: Serge, unfortunately you have opened pandora's box with thread. There are many differing opinions about how to use the Gri-Gri and the safety of each of those methods. In regard to your suggested method (quoted above). While adding some slack below the device may seem like a good idea, if your climber falls during that time, that extra slack will very likely be pulled through the GriGri before it locks up. The reason being that the locking mechanisim on the GriGri depends on having some resistance on the brake strand in order to lock. By Introducing a "loop of slack" there will be very little resistance until the rope comes tight on your brake hand. Therefore, you should keep as little slack as possible between your brake hand and the GriGri (this actually applies to other Assisted Braking Devices as well). You are actually better off having to overriding the cam a bit longer than having that slack in the system. My 2 cents it that I think you are more worried about overriding the cam than you need to be. Even if you are overriding the cam when you climber falls, as long as you are using Petzl's recommended technique(with your index finger on the lip), and as long as you have control of the brake strand at all times, and clamp down on it as soon as you recognize your climber is falling; the GriGri will almost certaintly Lock up. As long as you have a firm grip on the brake strand, the cam will engage on the GriGri, and it actually takes quite a lot of force (pushing down on the cam) to prevent it from engaging. I have caught falls while I had the cam overridden on the GriGri, and it locks every time for me. I think the key to using the GriGri safely is that you never squeeze or push the cam down with much force. I encourage you to experiment with the GriGri as I have done. The easiest way is to tie the rope off to a tree or something, put the rope in the GriGri, and attach it to your harness. Now back away from from the tree, and actively try to defeat the GriGri by overriding the cam, pulling on the climber's strand... etc. When I have tried this, the only way I can defeat the GriGri is when I don't have a good grip on the brake strand. I have even tried grabbing the climbers strand and pulling on it as hard as I can with a gloved hand and it still locks up (as long as I have a grip on teh brake strand). Ted Pinson is spot on when he says that the GriGri behaves vary differently depending on rope diameter. The GriGri-1 also differs from the GriGri-2 in this regard. If you are using a thin rope, you can, and should be able to get away with just using teh GriGri like an ATC. |
|
You can try to feed slack ATC-style but the Grigri will usually lock up anyway because the cam spring is too weak. This technique does work with the Mad Rock Lifeguard however due to its stronger spring, which is why my Grigri2 is now mostly gathering dust. I'm not 100% positive this is safer, but it is easier, simpler, and more pleasant. |
|
use gloves. |
John Wilder wrote: Ah, thank you - this potentially reconcicles the current Petzl recommendation with my worry. I've been playing with the original GriGri. |
Alex Kowalcyk wrote: Agree^^ |
|
Finally, a new topic on MP that hasn't been previously discussed or easily found by the search function. I look forward to learning something new. |
|
climbing friend, do not utilize deadly ATC, under any circumstance. do utilize the petzl recommended methods demonstrated in text manual and online vidoe, and nothing else. do not listen to teh haterz. all your flash are belong to me. |
|
climbing friend kyle quite-hairy, this question 'tis quite good but look yourself around you at the sport crag, few peoplez actually utilize the recommended method closely, probably because they are, how you say, "fucking idiots?" I am in constant vision of people temporarily no handing the brake strand, constantly resting their hand on top of the device as if it is a hand-resting device, constantly holding down the cam instead of only temporarily for your fast-feeding, and other violations all contrary to manufacturer safety instructions. I for one would like form grigristaz police force, to issue grigri misuse citations, and for worst offenders, throw burlap sack over their heads and lock them in secret prison no trials, no lawyers, no. also do this for anyone playing music at crag, toproping routes with multiple followers, utilizing deadly ATC or PAS thong. |
Kyle Tarry wrote: Lol, my grigri impaired self backs up Kyle on this one, and some of you upthread. Petzl's method is fine (my problems with it aren't the fault of the device). It does make a difference which device and what ropes, that's true with more than the grigri. Practice until you nail it. That, to me, is the single "rule" that is skipped far too often. Best, OLH EDIT: Climbing friend Aleks, when I use my Alpine Up essentially as ATC (for fat gym rope toprope) should I be expecting the dropping of the burlap bag? Will that be you in person? ;-D |
Old lady H wrote: climbing friend, I am not familiar with this inferior device, but if I see you at crag I shall investigate thorough and make determination on should you belong in secret belay violation prison, burlap sack always ready, always waiting... however my heart it is quite happy that you utilize an assisted braking device of some kind over deadly ATC |
Aleks Zebastian wrote: Wait. So the bag thing is bad, right? Got it! H. |
|
the best way to feed quickly and smoothly, regardless of device, is for the leader to call out that they are clipping a couple seconds prior to pulling up the rope if they know they are going to make a big fast jerking clip. |
