Sandbagged climbing areas

its all 5.9

5.13 doesn't exist-lets calls it hard 12

everything is sandbagged or everything is soft

what is true anymore anyway?

i get more scared on 5.8s more often than i do 5.10s

so it goes...

Downtownt Kay wrote:

so it goes...

Kurt Vonnegut?  Is that you posting from beyond the blue tunnel?

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

there are stiff areas and soft areas and stuff in between. some places are  absurdly sandbagged, seneca, gunks and daks come to mind..... Ironicaly We thought Wild iris was stiffest grades we encountered on our  SD,Wyo, MT, CO and Quebec climbing trip last summer...

You should've gone to Tensleep.  If you need some kind of ego stroking, that is.

Mark Straub wrote:

Try hopping on "Where Lizards Dare" in Red River Gorge- It's rated 5.9+ but I've climbed easier 5.10c.

I don't understand why everyone thinks this route is so hard. Day Dreaming and the Beeneling are both 9+ as well and I thought they were much harder than Where Lizards Dare.

At the same time, Sam I Am is 10d and I thought it was easier than all three of those.

Hey Lewis, not sure if you're still reading this thread but there are some good books that give context for why certain American climbing areas are the way they are. Here are two: https://www.amazon.com/American-Rock-Region-Culture-Climbing/dp/0881504289 and https://www.amazon.com/History-Free-Climbing-America-Wizards/dp/0899973205

Never been to the Needles of Rushmore, but my experience of the other areas you mentioned:

Moab: Wall St, Indian Creek, River Road (trad climbs, not boulders) - soft. Canyonlands - average. Arches - stiff.

Boulder: Dream and Boulder Canyon sport - slightly soft. Boulder Canyon trad - average. Eldo - slightly stiff.

Clear Creek - slightly soft.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Having learned to climb at Devils Lake and having family up in NJ where we head to Gunks at least once or twice a year with me being the only leader, I always felt super confident that since I learned at these stiffly graded old-school areas and live in a a state with extremely conservative trad ethics, I can lead at the the grade anywhere else. I go to places like Red Rock and I am able to walk up multi-pitches a grade or two higher than I felt confident on at single pitch at DL and seem to have my confidence confirmed.

Then I went to Seneca for the first time...swift kick straight to the nuts...

Not sure why this started thread started up again but thanks everyone. After climbing alot more this summer I'm starting to see why some of you say the grade doesn't necessarily matter.

I mostly climb Mt. Lemmon in So AZ and everyone I know who climbs here says its sandbagged. I haven't really climbed any where else so I have no way of knowing. Are there any other Lemmon climbers out there who can weigh in? Thanks, I'm just curious

Anything put up by Layton Kor -- hard if you can't OW or chimney.  5.9+ is especially suspicious

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

there are stiff areas and soft areas and stuff in between. some places are  absurdly sandbagged, seneca, gunks and daks come to mind..... Ironicaly We thought Wild iris was stiffest grades we encountered on our  SD,Wyo, MT, CO and Quebec climbing trip last summer...

I found Wild Iris to be a whole lot softer than Eldo Canyon, Black Canyon, older routes in RMNP, or even Vedauwoo in the same state

There are NO sandbagged AREAS, only sandbagged CLIMBS.

The Gunks aren't sandbagged.  Once you're fluid with the style and the rock, the grades are spot-on.

Having climbed almost everywhere, I'd say Seneca is entirely sandbagged.  Sure, other areas have honest grading or some stiff climbs (relative to the area) but if we're talking straight-up, flagrant whole-area sandbagging... Seneca takes the cake.  And let's crarify something: older grades are generally more true/ honest vs. modern sport cmimbing like RRG, Red Rocks, or Horshoe.

Yosemite pretty much sets the standard for real grades.

Russ Keane wrote:

No matter what, it's tough to compare sport to trad.   Kind of apples and oranges.

I'll clarify:

Have you compared grades at of the trad climbs at The Gunks to grades of the trad climbs at Red Rocks?

eli poss wrote:

Why did you just necromance two threads with the exact same comment...

The hardest 11c I've ever been on was at Index, incidentally...  And Ten Sleep is soft all over-

Russ Keane wrote:

No matter what, it's tough to compare sport to trad.   Kind of apples and oranges.

Apples are neither?

Connecticut has got to be the stiffest place I've ever climbed at. Next would be the Adirondacks. 

You know your local area is sandbagged when you go to a random place somewhere else in the world and onsight a 5.12 and you rarely even climb a 5.11 at home.

for bouldering:

Jtree: all over the place

Buttermilks:softish, unless its under v3, in which case its super hard, which makes no sense

Joes:soft

Moes:super soft

Priest draw: hard as balls

Red rocks: normal

Pawtuckaway, NH: so sandbagged

ViperScale wrote:

You know your local area is sandbagged when you go to a random place somewhere else in the world and onsight a 5.12 and you rarely even climb a 5.11 at home.

Get scared on 5.8 trad in CT, Onsight 5.10 trad anywhere else