Rappel Extension Methodology

One more reason for an extended rappel: 

You are a ridiculously short old lady, and would rather not have, ahem, let's just say anything in range of getting sucked into the rappel device.

I just measured, and belly button to chin I've got less than 16". Extend that sucker? You betcha!

Best, OLH

rgold wrote:

Extended rappels are not without downsides.  It is harder to get started if the anchor is low, the device scrapes against the wall above a ceiling after you go over it, and the height of the device makes it more likely to grab long hair and pony tails and possibly burn your shoulder or cheek.

One I found the other day is that it is a lot harder to ascend your rope with an extended rappel by the pull the rope through the ATC trick.  Yes, a guide mode device can be turned into an ascender -- but if you just want to gain a few inches to a couple feet, that faffing is over-kill, but if you can just grab the rope above the device, stand-up, and pull some rope through the device, it is (relatively) easy to gain some height back with a non-extended device.  I've even ascended most of the lenght of a double-rappel this way when I didn't reach an appropriate anchor (an oops rappelling Royal Arches).

I do it exactly as they talk about at the site 95% of the time. Someone said it's too much extension, but I typically use that much and like it -- the beauty of the system is you can dial back the extension by just making the middle knot in the sling further in. Pretty much every AMGA guide I've encountered says extension is almost always the way to go. Edit: The one thing I do different from their video is test the autoblock before unclipping from the anchor. That way you know the autoblock will grab right, and provides an easy check that there should be slack in both legs of the sling when everything is weight tested properly.

Pros:

* Cleaning routes really nice with autoblock to keep you tight to rope and to go hands free if necessary

* Super easy for multi-pitch, just unclip the locker on belay loop (which as a bonus adds redundancy to sling, not that it's needed) to next station and rinse/repeat

* Arguably, doesn't require any extra gear than what you'd have on hand anyway

* Lots of safety features (e.g. if you junk up atc connection autoblock *may* -- don't rely too much on it -- catch you and save your life)

* Best position for autoblock is really on belay loop

Cons:

* As others have said, roofs can be slightly awkward

* Harder to do a small ascent by pulling on rope

* If you need to do a long ascent you'll want to set up prussik and switch to guide mode for ascent (or just start over) -- though actually this is easier extended than not

* Takes slightly longer to set-up, but not too bad once you dial it in

So what I'm gathering is that it's a good method for descending from multipitch climbs but probably a bit overkill for say single pitch sport...especially when such a long connection may make it more difficult to work with a pair of bolts and then snug up to it prior to rap (?)

Ken Graf wrote:

So what I'm gathering is that it's a good method for descending from multipitch climbs but probably a bit overkill for say single pitch sport...especially when such a long connection may make it more difficult to work with a pair of bolts and then snug up to it prior to rap (?)

It's up to you whether you decide it's overkill for single pitch. I personally don't think it's overkill, but I'm also not on-board with the minimalist climbing mentality of only as safe as necessary (aka it's a dangerous sport, get over it) that a lot of other climbers seem to have.

Ken Graf wrote:

So what I'm gathering is that it's a good method for descending from multipitch climbs but probably a bit overkill for say single pitch sport...especially when such a long connection may make it more difficult to work with a pair of bolts and then snug up to it prior to rap (?)

 'good method for descending from multipitch climbs' is not how I would characterize it and single/multi is largely immaterial.

Ken Graf wrote:

So what I'm gathering is that it's a good method for descending from multipitch climbs but probably a bit overkill for say single pitch sport...especially when such a long connection may make it more difficult to work with a pair of bolts and then snug up to it prior to rap (?)

I extend the rappel device so I can use an autoblock on my belay loop, which for me depends on the pitch itself, not single vs. multi.  In most cases I'll gladly trade the 30 seconds it takes to extend and set up the autoblock for the security in case I have to untangle ropes, or my foot slips as I'm trying to traverse to the next anchor, or something else unexpected happens.  With a 30cm extension I haven't found rappelling over roofs to be a problem.

Most of the people I climb with don't extend, and neither they nor I have died yet..

rgold wrote:

In some sense I've come full circle, because I belay and rappel with an Alpine Up, and it reliably autolocks on double 8.5 mm strands if you let go of the brake strand.  None of the other reasons apply either.  Friction isn't a problem, and the Up functions as a progress capture device without changing anything about its ordinary orientation on the belay loop. So there is no reason to extend that device, and I don't.

Have you used it to single-strand rappel? I haven't gotten a chance to rappel with my Click Up (which by its nature can only do single-strand rappels). I'm hoping it will work the same way since it's the same frictioning mechanism.

I have, but the instruction manual says you shouldn't;  I don't know why.

And it had good enough friction with a single strand?

The Alpine Up comes under asymmetrical load when only one strand is loaded. Maybe that's why they don't want you to single-strand rappel with it?

David Kerkeslager wrote:

The Alpine Up comes under asymmetrical load when only one strand is loaded. Maybe that's why they don't want you to single-strand rappel with it?

It also comes under (much higher) asymmetrical load when catching a lead fall on one strand, which it is designed to do and does well. Not sure why they don't allow rapping on 1 strand. I don't intend to use it that way normally, but wouldn't hesitate to do so if I needed to. 

Yeah, it seems reasonably safe in concept to me. Maybe it's just something they didn't get a chance to test. We may never know. :)

David Kerkeslager wrote:

And it had good enough friction with a single strand?

The Alpine Up comes under asymmetrical load when only one strand is loaded. Maybe that's why they don't want you to single-strand rappel with it?

I single strand rap on my AlpineUp all the time. Sometimes it'll slip a bit under certain conditions, but it's by no means unsafe. 

Trevor. wrote:

I single strand rap on my AlpineUp all the time. Sometimes it'll slip a bit under certain conditions, but it's by no means unsafe. 

Whoa, "slipping a bit under certain conditions" sounds pretty bad to me.  What are those conditions?

David Kerkeslager wrote:

And it had good enough friction with a single strand?

The Alpine Up comes under asymmetrical load when only one strand is loaded. Maybe that's why they don't want you to single-strand rappel with it?

My impression from all the vids, etc is that they totally sell the Up as a device to use with two strands. Even the instruction sheet doesn't give you much for single strand uses.

But, a single strand rappel? How could you lower a top rope climber if single strand is a no go? It's essentially the same.

By the way, mine is on the way! I'm super stoked!!

Best, Helen

rgold wrote:

Whoa, "slipping a bit under certain conditions" sounds pretty bad to me.  What are those conditions?

Single strand rap, stiff rope, steep, and not a lot of rope weight below the device. It's never been even remotely hard to control, the rope just slowly creeps through the device if you let off the brake. I've had the same thing happen with any other assisted devices I've used including the GriGri, although not always under the same circumstances. 

Not sure what's alarming about that, considering that a standard ATC slips a whole lot when you ease off the brake in most circumstances...

What's alarming is that some folks think the UP is reliable as a rappel backup.  Nobody thinks an ATC backs itself up.  It sounds to me as if a person who believes in rappel backups should use them with an UP on single-strand raps.

rgold wrote:

What's alarming is that some folks think the UP is reliable as a rappel backup.  Nobody thinks an ATC backs itself up.  It sounds to me as if a person who believes in rappel backups should use them with an UP on single-strand raps.

How would that work? Just asking. 

Best, Helen

Same way you'd back up an ATC---put the UP on an extension and an autoblock on the belay loop.  The extension can't be too long, because you still have to be able to use the handle on the device.

Or don't assume the device will catch you if you let go of the brake strand.  This was the usual situation for---what, 200 years? ---before rappel backups came on the scene.

rgold wrote:

Same way you'd back up an ATC---put the UP on an extension and an autoblock on the belay loop.  The extension can't be too long, because you still have to be able to use the handle on the device.

Or don't assume the device will catch you if you let go of the brake strand.  This was the usual situation for---what, 200 years? ---before rappel backups came on the scene.

Thanks! Needing a hand on the Up is what I was thinking of.

Best, Helen