TC Pro Resole With XS Grip2?

So the TC Pro normally has XS Edge rubber. I normally climb with XS Grip2 rubber, but this weekend I was trad climbing in Yosemite so I wore my TC Pros of course. I think they're phenomenal shoes overall, but I felt they slipped in a few places where my other shoes would have gripped. Has anyone done this? I only weigh 128, and I know shoe companies are more likely to put stickier, softer rubber on women's shoes (I assume because lighter people will deform the softer rubber less on edges). Any thoughts on the importance of hard rubber for edging in Yosemite vs sticky rubber for smearing in Yosemite?

Split the difference and get C4.

I re-sole with C4 on my TC pros for Yosemite climbing and I think it's awesome. I would definitely recommend it. 

C4 on tc pros ftw!

XS Grip is noticeably softer than Edge, and probably more similar to the C4 rubber. 

My friend resoles his TC pro in C4 rubber and he likes it. I think Grip 2 rubber is a little stiffer than C4 so it should retain some edging ability while also helping smear better. 

Hmm.  From my experience, Grip is softer than C4, but I've never compared both rubbers on the same shoe so it's hard to say.  Either way yeah, you'll get much better grip and sensitivity in exchange for having to use your feet a bit more to stand on tiny edges compared to edge, which basically acts like a cement block when new.  Good for edging, not for smearing.  It really depends on what you're doing.  There are people on here who own 2 pairs of TCs, one in Edge the other in C4.

I've had my Tenaya Iati (used the original Grip rubber) resoled in C4 and I noticed it didn't hold on edges it used to. Maybe just by resoling it, it loses some edging or what not? I'm not sure but I assumed it was because of the C4. And the Grip 2 is supposed to be stiffer than the original Grip. So I just assumed the Grip 2 should be stiffer than C4. Just my two cents. 

I like getting my shoes resoled with 5mm C4. The extra thick sole gives it some extra stiffness while still retaining the stickyness of the C4. Also, I think the thicker sole lasts longer, although the softer rubber may just cancel that out. FWIW, I tend to err more on the side of softer shoes and softer rubber. I rarely edge because smedging works better on a lot of the edges around here. 

Ted Pinson wrote:

Hmm.  From my experience, Grip is softer than C4, but I've never compared both rubbers on the same shoe so it's hard to say.  Either way yeah, you'll get much better grip and sensitivity in exchange for having to use your feet a bit more to stand on tiny edges compared to edge, which basically acts like a cement block when new.

I once played w/ sheets of C4/Grip2/Onyx/Edge @ R&R a few years back. Grip 2 is noticeably stiffer than C4, but Edge is stiffer than Onyx by a much wider margin. This doesn't say anything about how they climb, but IMO, unless the shoe is board lasted, there's no just using your feet a bit more between resole of C4 and Edge rubber. it'll drastically change the characteristic of the shoe.

That's the rub. C4 will smear better on the smooth rock but it's noticeably worse than Edge on the tiny edges. This is also noticeable when you want the rock to "bite" into the rubber and stick. Think crystals in Tuolumne. I've noticed the C4 deforms a lot more here as well vs Edge. For years I have had two pairs of Miuras for west coast Granite. One with C4 and the other with Vibram (VS and then Edge). For technical, smeary corners (stemming) or granite with "pasting" footwork, C4 is better but for all else, I think the Edge is better. Doubly true as the temps rise. C4 shoes tend to be my "red point / project" shoe and Edge usually my onsight choice. More often than not, rolling off a micro edge is more of a stopper than less stellar smears. 

reboot wrote:

I once played w/ sheets of C4/Grip2/Onyx/Edge @ R&R a few years back. Grip 2 is noticeably stiffer than C4, but Edge is stiffer than Onyx by a much wider margin. This doesn't say anything about how they climb, but IMO, unless the shoe is board lasted, there's no just using your feet a bit more between resole of C4 and Edge rubber. it'll drastically change the characteristic of the shoe.

After blowing through the original Grip2 sole, I had my women's Miura VS resoled with C4. They got noticeably stiffer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bnice wrote:

I've had my Tenaya Iati (used the original Grip rubber) resoled in C4 and I noticed it didn't hold on edges it used to. Maybe just by resoling it, it loses some edging or what not? I'm not sure but I assumed it was because of the C4. And the Grip 2 is supposed to be stiffer than the original Grip. So I just assumed the Grip 2 should be stiffer than C4. Just my two cents. 

I read that Grip 2 is supposed to be firmer than Grip 1 but it felt softer than Grip 1 in my experience.  The consensus from friends with it is similar.  We can really notice the Grip 1 not smearing as well in the gym but outdoors its not as obvious.

Noah Yetter wrote:

After blowing through the original Grip2 sole, I had my women's Miura VS resoled with C4. They got noticeably stiffer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can't compare a thinned out sole with a new resole: every pair of shoes I've gotten resoled w/ the same (or sometimes even softer rubber) came back stiffer than just before resoling. New gluing also makes the resole feel stiffer initially, but it'll quickly soften up again.

But like I said, I've handled the actual rubber sheets, w/o all the other variables that can influence the outcome. 

reboot wrote:

You can't compare a thinned out sole with a new resole: every pair of shoes I've gotten resoled w/ the same (or sometimes even softer rubber) came back stiffer than just before resoling. New gluing also makes the resole feel stiffer initially, but it'll quickly soften up again.

But like I said, I've handled the actual rubber sheets, w/o all the other variables that can influence the outcome. 

My Katana Laces, resoled with Edge, came back noticeably softer. In both cases I'm not talking about just-after-resoling, the changes have been permanent. Obviously a small sample size so we can't necessarily draw firm conclusions...

Also I very much doubt "thinning" of the sole matters in the slightest. Unless you're climbing miles of rough slabs, we only wear away a tiny area at the outer edge that shouldn't change the structural characteristics of the rubber sheet.

Noah Yetter wrote:

My Katana Laces, resoled with Edge, came back noticeably softer. In both cases I'm not talking about just-after-resoling, the changes have been permanent. Obviously a small sample size so we can't necessarily draw firm conclusions...

Also I very much doubt "thinning" of the sole matters in the slightest. Unless you're climbing miles of rough slabs, we only wear away a tiny area at the outer edge that shouldn't change the structural characteristics of the rubber sheet.

Yes, the process of heating the sole to peal the rubber back can permanently soften it, and that varies between resolers and each resole. Also, you may only be thinning a small part of the sole, but it's also the most important part or it wouldn't have wore off. It may not seem like a big difference in your hand but your feet will notice it.

I don't bother resoling my shoes more than once anymore, but I've had 4-5 pairs of the same size & model shoes resoled with all 4 of the compounds (as well as old grip) at the same resoler, most more than once, so I've had bit more than a single sample size.

But like I said, I've compared the rubber sheets by themselves. Are you suggesting I'm actually wrong about that or somehow, resoling with a softer rubber sheet, all else equal, can result in a stiffer final product?

reboot wrote:

But like I said, I've compared the rubber sheets by themselves. Are you suggesting I'm actually wrong about that or somehow, resoling with a softer rubber sheet, all else equal, can result in a stiffer final product?

I guess the simplest summary of what I'm saying is that none of my experience matches your claims.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what story the raw sheets of rubber tell if that doesn't correlate with the final result in the actual resoled shoe, since that's the only thing that matters. So given that I have a pair of soft Grip2 shoes that became stiff C4 shoes, it just doesn't make sense to conclude that since C4 is allegedly softer than Grip2 that choosing it will make for a softer pair of shoes. Your other claim seems to be Grip2->C4 can result in stiffening due to the resoling process itself making the shoe stiffer, but again I have contrary evidence in other pairs of resoled shoes. If your claim is even more specifically that resoling with a softer rubber results in a temporarily stiffer shoe that softens with use, again that does not match my experience.

Noah Yetter wrote:

I guess the simplest summary of what I'm saying is that none of my experience matches your claims.

Neither does having a snowstorm in mid-May match the global warming consensus.

And that's what I've been getting at: you have a few samples with a bunch of uncontrolled variables, and your next experience may very well be the opposite of your prior experience. But hey, knock yourself out. 

Actually, that is completely in line with the consensus model.  A common misconception is that higher global mean temperatures necesitates warmer temperatures everywhere (this stems from a misunderstanding about how averages work).  Slight temperature variations can have huge impacts on weather patterns, which could lead to a low pressure (cold) weather system moving into your area unexpectedly.  A common scenario used would be if ocean desalination caused by melting glaciers were to shut down the Gulf Stream.  This would effectively result in ice-age conditions in western Europe, as the area is kept unnaturally warm and moderate (for its Latitude) by the warm air flowing from the Gulf Stream.

Warning: Serious thread digression has begun!

(so what else is new?)

Ted Pinson wrote:

A common misconception is that higher global mean temperatures necesitates warmer temperatures everywhere (this stems from a misunderstanding about how averages work).

I see you know how to use Google...but was it so hard to see my sarcastic undertone? I don't think we have any sarcasm emojis here.