Ski crampons vs booting it on the way up?

Hey folks, first post on the forums!

Question for the touring/ski mountaineering crowd - I've got a setup with Solomon Guardians, which have been great for skiing but pretty heavy for skinning so I've been thinking of getting tech bindings to keep up with my friends better.

This weekend I went ski mountaineering for the first time, and during the beginning of the summit push, I was going up zig zagging on my skis with ski crampons while my buddy went up with boot crampons. It was maybe a 25 degree slope and very hard snow since it was night. I was sticking to it just fine but my buddy was having a much easier time than me, and I finally put my skis on my pack and switched to boot crampons. Even though I had thought boot crampons would only better for the really steep stuff, it was actually way easier to go up on them, even carrying my skis on my back!

My question is, was going up on skis only so rough for me because I was doing it on frame bindings and with pretty heavy skis and boots? (~20lbs for skis+boots+bindings) Or, is it actually just easier to go up on boot crampons once things get above a certain angle?

Maybe it's finally time to drop the $$ on the Kingpins I've had my eye on...

Alex Kolchinski wrote:

Hey folks, first post on the forums!

Question for the touring/ski mountaineering crowd - I've got a setup with Solomon Guardians, which have been great for skiing but pretty heavy for skinning so I've been thinking of getting tech bindings to keep up with my friends better.

This weekend I went ski mountaineering for the first time, and during the beginning of the summit push, I was going up zig zagging on my skis with ski crampons while my buddy went up with boot crampons. It was maybe a 25 degree slope and very hard snow since it was night. I was sticking to it just fine but my buddy was having a much easier time than me, and I finally put my skis on my pack and switched to boot crampons. Even though I had thought boot crampons would only better for the really steep stuff, it was actually way easier to go up on them, even carrying my skis on my back!

My question is, was going up on skis only so rough for me because I was doing it on frame bindings and with pretty heavy skis and boots? (~20lbs for skis+boots+bindings) Or, is it actually just easier to go up on boot crampons once things get above a certain angle?

Maybe it's finally time to drop the $$ on the Kingpins I've had my eye on...

Might have to do with your technique and/or the line you picked.  Ski crampons are really more for going across sidehills than up hills.   That said Tech bindings are definitely worth it...

I've seen people with very good technique get up crazy steep stuff with ski crampons. Technique wins. 

ski crampons win the day with crusts that support a person on skis but not a person in boots.  this happens a lot in cold climates in spring. 

conditions dictate equipment more than anything imo.

There is no faster animal than booting straight up, especially if there is a trail kicked in! With crampons on, it can be even faster (depending on conditions). There really is so many different factors... like,,, if your climbing up a steep, concave couloir, or up a tight convex ridge,,, powder snow, firm frozen spring snow... Some people are stronger on skins and others stronger while booting... How often are you purely touring,,, or are you just doing side country?? Having a quiver is the answer for me. Tele skies for typical fun tours, heavier alpine boot with heavier touring binding for inbounds and side country tours, and light AT boot with tech binding for long or technical tours(ski mountaineering)... I recently finally got a tech binding set up and am blown away how much lighter they Are! Saving 8- 16 lbs can make a big difference. I don't have any experience using ski crampons because I've usually not needed them (which maybe comes down to technique like the guys mentioned above). So many factors,,,so many factors,,, sometimes every step or turn can be different than the last...........................choose your weapon wisely

Just get the kingpins.

mediocre wrote:

Just get the kingpins.

And take an honest look at how heavy your boots are. Makes every bit as much difference.

Ski crampons are amazing on hard snow, vastly decreased effort in general, even on lower angle terrain sometimes if it's spring. Typically they can get you up most snow up to 35 degrees or so and if your skis are heavy it's nice to keep them off your back as long as possible. If you really need to boot/foot crampon then you'll know when to switch over. 

The whole key to ski mountaineering is adapting to the situation.  Booting direct is usually faster if you aren't wallowing around and sometimes it's the only way to make progress in steep narrow chutes.  If you really want to go all out go lighter than the Kingpins and like Nick said, look at your boots, you'll get a lot further a lot faster if you have more range of motion in the ankle.  In the end lighter gear won't make up for poor fitness but it will make your wallet a lot lighter.

Billey Goat Ascent Plates help mitigate those boot vs skin decisions:) 

A heavy rig is a heavy rig, whether its on your back or your feet.  So I don't think your gear is the main problem.  

You should be able to skin up a 25 degree slope as fast or faster then someone booting, and if your technique is on point, expend less energy.  

Make sure you have your kick turns dialed:

Thanks folks, did some more reading and ended up ordering a pair of Salomon Mtn Explore 95s and some black Vipecs, both on sale...that'll save 8 lbs on my feet even before I spring for new boots.

Phillip - 100%, thanks for sharing the video. I can get up a steep-ish slope without sliding back but I definitely wouldn't call my kick turns dialed, that'll be something to work on especially once I'm on the new bindings.

My own experience is that terrain (how steep, how narrow the slope) snow conditions (hard ice crust, breakable crust, etc.), equipment (weight, toe pivot tech binding versus tele cable, etc.) and in particular technique all make a difference.

Up to about 40/45 degrees if the slope is wide enough for setting tracks it is more efficient for me to keep my skis on instead of boot packing (you do not want to be switching direction every 10 feet..).  Making a summit push versus simply moving over terrain also plays into the decision of taking skis off and putting on boot crampons.  It is more efficient in skimo to do the least amount of equipment changes as possible, so for example on a narrow steep section I might parallel step a short distance instead of taking skis off.

My skimo set-up is Dynafit Speed Radicals on SkiTrab Tour Rando XL and Dynafit TLT 5 boots.