Why might someone want a softer shoe for bouldering?

I was talking to some salespeople at the local gear shop today. One of them mentioned that the futura is a popular bouldering shoe because it's super soft.

I don't quite understand that logic. I get that for vertical stuff and edging on dimes, you might want a harder, stiffer shoe like tc pros or k laces for some support. However, once you get overhung, why might you want a soft shoe over a hard shoe?

Unless it's all just marketing shenanigans. But I doubt it's 100% shenanigans. There's gotta be some reasoning behind it.

softer shoe=more comfortable downsize=more down sizing=better overall fit and ability to transfer power through your toe and heel which is essential when things get overhanging. This being said there are plenty of stiff bouldering shoes, the la sportiva solution being fairly stiff and it's with out a doubt the most common bouldering shoe in the world and been used to boulder 9a so soft shoes don't inherently mean more power/precision. I should also just say if you downsize enough in a soft shoe it should be almost as stiff if not as stiff as a super stiff shoe like the tc pro or miura vs.

Lardtazium wrote:Why might someone want a softer shoe for bouldering?

Preference.

Softer shoes are more sensitive and flexible. This allows you to grab holds rather than just plop your weight on them, which is crucial for steep climbing. To be honest, the real question is why someone would want to boulder in stiff shoes.

Seb, Solutions are pretty soft. While they might be stiffer than a Futura or 5.10 Team, they're still on the softer end compared to Miuras, Katanas, etc.

My 3.5?mm 5.10 Teams make it way easier to grab roof holds with my toes and are way more sticky than my TCs.

quote: that guy named seb
softer shoe=more comfortable downsize=more down sizing=better overall fit

I should also just say if you downsize enough in a soft shoe it should be almost as stiff if not as stiff as a super stiff shoe like the tc pro or miura vs.

Almost but not quite. Even a super downsized Skwama will never be able to edge as well as a TC Pro, you just can't get the power that the outside of your foot is pushing to the inside edge.

And don't conflate more downsizing into a better fit. Having a softer shoe will let you downsize more because the shoe will stretch more, that's it. If the last doesn't match up with your foot it will still be a bad fit. Like for me I can't even properly size a 5.10 Team since the toe box does NOT agree with my foot. But a Skwama I definitely can.

In terms of stiffness they each have their place, there are some very horizontal routes I like to have a stiffer shoe since it's easier to put power into the hold, and there is some where having a softer shoe is nicer to feel like you're "grabbing" onto the hold. If anything you can get more performance out of a more comfortable fit in a stiffer shoe than you could out of a soft shoe of the same fit.

Joshua D wrote:My 3.5?mm 5.10 Teams make it way easier to grab roof holds with my toes and are way more sticky than my TCs.

Half of that is the rubber.

Ted Pinson wrote:....To be honest, the real question is why someone would want to boulder in stiff shoes.

For the edging advantage.

The Five Ten XVI is pretty awesome, as far as soft shoes goes. I can't personally use soft shoes because my big toes have bad tendons and I need the support, but the small amount of climbing I did in them I found the rubber to be crazy sticky and the shoes to hold onto the smallest of features.

Ted Pinson wrote:Softer shoes are more sensitive and flexible. This allows you to grab holds rather than just plop your weight on them, which is crucial for steep climbing. To be honest, the real question is why someone would want to boulder in stiff shoes. Seb, Solutions are pretty soft. While they might be stiffer than a Futura or 5.10 Team, they're still on the softer end compared to Miuras, Katanas, etc.

I hear this a lot, "grabbing holds". What does this mean? Like curling your toes and flexing your feet to pinch a hold with your feet?

Lardtazium wrote: I hear this a lot, "grabbing holds". What does this mean? Like curling your toes and flexing your feet to pinch a hold with your feet?

Maybe for some people with monkey toes. But if you press a softer more pliable material against a rock it'll fill the low points to some point and create more surface contact. If you press a firmer material against the same surface it's going to bridge a lot of those low points and only contact the high spots, leaving you with much less surface contact. That's the "grab" they're talking about.

Depends a lot on where/what you're climbing.

Yeah, "grabbing" holds is kind of hard to describe, but it's what you do on severe overhangs/roofs. You flex your toes and press into the hold, keeping your feet on the wall. It's a really subtle pressure shift and hard to do with stiff shoes because you can't feel the holds. This also relies mostly on friction, which stiffer shoes have less of...

Brian Matusiewicz wrote: Maybe for some people with monkey toes. But if you press a softer more pliable material against a rock it'll fill the low points to some point and create more surface contact. If you press a firmer material against the same surface it's going to bridge a lot of those low points and only contact the high spots, leaving you with much less surface contact. That's the "grab" they're talking about.

So, it's not necessarily a feature of a shoe but more a feature of the rubber?

Like the team vxi rubber is gonna grab something better than xs edge regardless of shoe profile?

Yes, very much so, although the profile does help by concentrating power in the toes. Even a flat lasted shoe can handle overhangs though if it's soft and sized aggressively...people have been climbing the steeps at the Red River Gorge for years wearing Moccasyms.