"Universal" Belay Certification
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americanalpineclub.org/univ…
I guess the idea is now instead of climbing with 15 belay tags on your harness from a dozen gyms, you only need one for all gyms? |
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That seems like the one practical benefit to the average climber. Having a standard curriculum will also possibly be a benefit to those who provide instruction, and those who insure them. |
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"Universal"? So, I could use it in Europe? |
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I love this idea! |
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Just watched those videos.. They are actually fantastic... I think this is a great thing for the aac to do.. |
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Given the pervasive occurrences of belayer incompetence, the AAC almost had to try something. No doubt the certification itself will be used in unfortunate ways, and whether such certification can really address the issues of distraction and complacency is surely open to question. |
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wivanoff wrote:"Universal"? So, I could use it in Europe?You can use it on Mars. We've all seen sketchy belay practices come out of certain gyms. I've done a lot of work with ropes courses and seen some really scary stuff come from people trained in house at different camps. I guess it looks bad for all of us if people are getting dropped all over the country. |
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Dylan B wrote:Terrible idea. I will not trust some centralized authority to tell me who is or is not a safe belayer. I will evaluate each person in my own judgment. The AAC is taking on a risk that they have no way to really evaluate or oversee.How can training be a terrible idea? You'd have to be a fool to blindly trust any belay "certificate," but it shows the person has received some basic training. It's a good starting point, no? |
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Seems nice to me. I was taught at a gym that used the AAC belay standards. The gym I'm at now teaches new leaders the "hold both ropes above the device with your weak hand, then move the dominant/brake hand" technique, which frankly sketches me out, especially seeing beginners doing it. After he took the course in the gym, I had my current partner watch the AAC videos, and told him "ignore what you were taught, belay me like this." |
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Selling fake universal belay certifications! |
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The belay methods taught are sound but certification is a slippery slope to licensing by land managers. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. |
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wivanoff wrote:I suspect it would be a long time before various gym's insurance companies accepted this without the individual gym doing the testing....Given that a relative handful of insurers insure a significant proportion of the gyms in this country, I'll bet there's actually considerable enthusiasm among them for a unified and high quality curriculum. I'll also bet that the AAC had conversations with those big insurers when this program was in development. |
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Brandon.Phillips wrote: We've all seen sketchy belay practices come out of certain gyms.Yes, we have. And the AAC Universal Belay Card will be issued by some of those same gyms who will (supposedly) follow the AAC criteria. And what if they don't? Is the AAC somehow going to oversee this? Or if an individual gets his card but reverts back to inattention or crappy technique? "Well, he's got his card. I guess he's OK to belay" How about when someone gets dropped in the gym. Is the gym owner going to shrug and say "I dunno. He had his Universal Belay Card"? |
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As usual, the measure of education is the lowest possible student's level to pass the certification. In other words: the guaranteed level of competence of certified person. If they know how to keep it high enough it will be really nice. |
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Give it a year or two and California will be requiring one of these in order to climb on public land. A couple more years and you'll need to show it in order to buy a belay device. |
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You can (and should) question any belay card or certification, and should assure yourself that your belayer knows what they're doing. Still, the AAC belay card would make me feel like someone has had some decent introduction to belaying standards. |
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When can I get my certified "Rock Police" card? |
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Not a bad idea, as long as the individual gyms that do the training work toward a unified standard and issue the cards. It is like SCUBA diving. There are a handful of certifying agencies, and destinations sign up with whichever agency they like if they are going to teach divers. Once you complete a course, You are issued a card that is now universal. My NAUI diver card will get me on a boat anywhere in the world (as long as there are no technical requirements, like cave cert., that are also required). When I picked up my NitrOx cert., I did it through PADI, and it is also universally accepted. |
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Matt Himmelstein wrote:Not a bad idea, as long as the individual gyms that do the training work toward a unified standard and issue the cards. It is like SCUBA diving. There are a handful of certifying agencies, and destinations sign up with whichever agency they like if they are going to teach divers. Once you complete a course, You are issued a card that is now universal. My NAUI diver card will get me on a boat anywhere in the world (as long as there are no technical requirements, like cave cert., that are also required). When I picked up my NitrOx cert., I did it through PADI, and it is also universally accepted. All the certification shows is that you have had a MINIMUM level of training. If I am diving with someone, I care about more than just the certification, just like I care about more than just the card hanging off the harness with a climbing partner. It provides a baseline that training was completed to a certain level. I am then required to verify that the person has the appropriate skills to partner up with me.Yes. |
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I think the better idea is to have a black list of people who are terrible belayers. I work for a financial institution and we use something called chexsytems which basically lets us know if money is owed at another participating institution. it would be nice to have a list of people who have been denied at other gyms to be extra careful with and around those people (from a gym employee perspective). |
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I can't believe a believe a this is even a thing. My head hurts from banging it on my desk. |