New Black Diamond ATC Pilot

Kevin X wrote: Reviving this thread to ask: Is there a certain type of biner to use with the pilot?

I know with geometry based assisted lockers, the biner matters. Should I aim for the fattest, roundest stock HMS biner I can find? Or any biner without weird kinks in it?

Round stock works best.

On a side note I started carrying this device in place of my Grigri on climbs i want to save weight on and also carry my regular ATC for rapping.    On most alpine climbs that are halfway difficult I like to have some sort of auto locking belay device and kind of look at this as my lightweight Grigri. 

I believe most large HMS carabiners should work, as long as the pilot does not clash with the carabiner, when rotating.  I haven’t noticed any really significant difference in the assisted breaking, when using round vs I-beam shaped carabiners.  

For the assisted breaking function to work properly, the belay device has to be able to freely rotate, without obstruction.  Some mini-HMS carabiners or large HMS anti-crossloading carabiners could interfere with the rotation.  

I found that the edelrid “bulletproof” biners  with the steel insert do not work well with the pilot; they are too smooth and the rope does not catch.

I have used the pilot quite a bit and that’s the only issue I have had so far. I use it for anything other than multi pitch. 

Nate Ayers wrote: I found that the edelrid “bulletproof” biners  with the steel insert do not work well with the pilot; they are too smooth and the rope does not catch.

I have used the pilot quite a bit and that’s the only issue I have had so far. I use it for anything other than multi pitch. 

I use it for multi pitch, it replaces my Grigr.  It’s lighter than a regular ATC so I just carry both.  I don’t always carry it but if I’m going to do a long climb I’ll take it instead of the Grigri. 

You can rappel on a single strand with the ATC Pilot.  The set-up is exactly the same as rappelling with a Gri-Gri.  You can also use a carabiner brake rappel set-up, if you want to rappel on 2 strands and do not want to bring an extra belay device.

My preferred set-up for multi-pitch is to have the leader carry a GiGi or Ovo for belaying the follower directly off the anchor and have the second belaying the leader on an ATC Pilot or GriGri.  When you transition to rappelling, stack the rappel devices on the rope with the 2-strand device above the 1-strand device.  The 2-strand rappel device prevents the rope from being pulled through the anchor, without requiring a carabiner or knot block.

Karl Henize wrote: You can rappel on a single strand with the ATC Pilot.  The set-up is exactly the same as rappelling with a Gri-Gri.  You can also use a carabiner brake rappel set-up, if you want to rappel on 2 strands and do not want to bring an extra belay device.

My preferred set-up for multi-pitch is to have the leader carry a GiGi or Ovo for belaying the follower directly off the anchor and have the second belaying the leader on an ATC Pilot or GriGri.  When you transition to rappelling, stack the rappel devices on the rope with the 2-strand device above the 1-strand device.  The 2-strand prevents the rope from being pulled through the anchor, without requiring a carabiner or knot block.  

I gotta admit. This method of stacking devices instead of the old eight on a bight and carabiner is fairly slick. Kills two birds with one stone and keeps at least one climber alive. 

Karl Henize wrote: You can rappel on a single strand with the ATC Pilot.  The set-up is exactly the same as rappelling with a Gri-Gri.  You can also use a carabiner brake rappel set-up, if you want to rappel on 2 strands and do not want to bring an extra belay device.

My preferred set-up for multi-pitch is to have the leader carry a GiGi or Ovo for belaying the follower directly off the anchor and have the second belaying the leader on an ATC Pilot or GriGri.  When you transition to rappelling, stack the rappel devices on the rope with the 2-strand device above the 1-strand device.  The 2-strand rappel device prevents the rope from being pulled through the anchor, without requiring a carabiner or knot block.

Very smart method! Do you have a Youtube video of that?

Ben Hc wrote:

Very smart method! Do you have a Youtube video of that?

No.  For someone who is already experienced with rappelling, it is really quite simple and easy to practice.  Just practice it on horizontal ground, first.  There can be a little bit of slippage through the 2-strand device, which is easily stopped with either a friction hitch backup or a brake hand on both strands.  So, the person stacked on top should be attentive and watch for rope slippage.  

On the other hand, there is good video for rigging a 2-strand rappel, only using carabiners (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjWzxRJ9vtk).  IMO, everyone should learn these techniques, even if they don't plan to use a 1-strand belay device.  

Kevin X wrote: Reviving this thread to ask: Is there a certain type of biner to use with the pilot?

I know with geometry based assisted lockers, the biner matters. Should I aim for the fattest, roundest stock HMS biner I can find? Or any biner without weird kinks in it?

I think BD suggests you use their Gridlock pear-shaped locker with the device.

I've spoken extensively in a previous thread, I feel that the pilot is the absolute best belay device for the gym, it's quick to learn to use and incredibly convenient- but that it doesn't have as much place outdoors. 

adeadhead wrote: I've spoken extensively in a previous thread, I feel that the pilot is the absolute best belay device for the gym, it's quick to learn to use and incredibly convenient- but that it doesn't have as much place outdoors. 

I used to carry a Gri Gri and ATC on multi pitch climbs but more and more I’m brining the Pilot and my ATC and leaving the Gri Gri behind.   The Pilot weighs less than the ATC, I get the auto locking of the Gri Gri at a fraction of the weight.