Grand Valley Climbing in Grand Junction is raising their rates

So I heard some interesting news.

A few nights ago there was a climbing film screening at CMU (a local university in the Grand Valley). Before the screening the mc was listing all sponsors. Sponsors name was said, then the audience applauded. This happened for several sponsors until GVC’s name was read. No one in the audience clapped, dead silence. The audience then laughed. The mc then read other sponsors and the applause resumed. 

This is a bad sign for the future of the gym.  I really want this gym to succeed and be a part of the local community. 

J T wrote: Hmm, GJ must have grown a lot since I lived there.

When did you live here if I may ask? 

Late 90’s, so it’s been a while I admit.  But the entire county is only 140k people.  Compare that to 700k in El Paso County, and 350k in Larimer County; and the big gyms haven’t moved into Colorado Springs or Fort Collins yet.  I would guess they will move into those markets long before GJ.  Not knocking GJ, it’s just pretty small, and also with a higher percentage of folks who aren’t into that type of recreation relative to the Front Range.

It’s also comical and a bit sad that folks on here are accusing the owner of laughing all the way to the bank with the rate hikes.  He’s probably just trying to keep the lights on (when small businesses make seemingly counterproductive decisions, it’s often not by choice), but some folks on here are just silly (not you Chad, your comments seem focused on the right issue).  But I do agree that if routes are stale, I wouldn’t climb there either.  When I climb outside, I try to do something new every time.  That’s one of the wonderful things about climbing compared to a lot of other activities.  I take that same approach to the gym, and a lot of people do.  The owner really needs to focus on fresh routes;  I think people should complain about that...and leave it at that.  I will also say that banning members is overly counterproductive and totally avoidable.  He needs to rise above.

I’m a member and am happy there. I generally only hit the autobelays instead of bouldering, but the route variety is sufficient for me going there twice or thrice a week. The management has always had a good line of communication with me.

I would imagine that utility bills are pretty high in that big of a building, with our temperature extremes.

The climbing walls alone cost 750,000 dollars.

J T wrote: It’s also comical and a bit sad that folks on here are accusing the owner of laughing all the way to the bank with the rate hikes.  He’s probably just trying to keep the lights on (when small businesses make seemingly counterproductive decisions, it’s often not by choice), but some folks on here are just silly (not you Chad, your comments seem focused on the right issue).  But I do agree that if routes are stale, I wouldn’t climb there either.  When I climb outside, I try to do something new every time.  That’s one of the wonderful things about climbing compared to a lot of other activities.  I take that same approach to the gym, and a lot of people do.  The owner really needs to focus on fresh routes;  I think people should complain about that...and leave it at that.  I will also say that banning members is overly counterproductive and totally avoidable.  He needs to rise above.

I agree. I can’t imagine how  difficult and costly it is to run and maintain the climbing aspect of a gym.   The building maintenance side I have a pretty good idea as to the costs and difficulty (I’m an architect). 

Kevinmurray wrote: The climbing walls alone cost 750,000 dollars.

I estimate that the land and building where around $1 million. 

So you’re saying you hired new setters, which was what the OP wanted to happen....4 years ago. 

B P wrote: So you’re saying you hired new setters, which was what the OP wanted to happen....4 years ago. 

Dude, give it a rest.  This type trolling isn’t helpful. 

I am a former employee and setter at GVC. I worked there from 2015 through 2016 and have since worked at several other climbing gyms after moving away from Grand Junction. As someone who has been setting routes for 5 years now, I can honestly say it is much harder than it looks from the outside. As a setter at Grand Valley, I took a lot of pride in the routes I put up, even the bad ones. Setting a good route, especially at a harder grade on the walls at GVC was time-consuming and labor intensive and when I was working there we definitely had a motivation problem among the setters when it came to gearing up for setting on the lead wall. Each route I set in the lead cave would take a minimum of 1.5 hours (sometimes as long as 3 for harder grades) to make sure it was something I thought people would enjoy or want to climb at least once. As a setter, it is impossible to set a route that will make everyone happy and someone is always going to break your beta no matter how well you set it. This has been true at every gym I have worked at. Setting and stripping 10-15 routes a week is difficult especially at a facility with 50ft tall walls. I know there are larger facilities such as commercial gyms in Denver and SLC that can accomplish more but they have many more resources and larger staffs. The most recent gym I worked at in Vanoucver, BC has walls that top out at 38 feet, are far less overhung and we still only managed to strip and set 8-10 routes a week. And we had a team dedicated to stripping the routes the night before. I can't speak to what is going on now, but when I set at GVC the setters were in charge of stripping, setting, and cleaning. We'd be lucky to set 2 routes in a session. I think the most I ever set there in a single day in the lead cave was 4 routes, and I was freaking exhausted afterwards. If you have spent time setting before then you know, if you haven't then you don't.

I believe the adult day pass rate at GVC is 20$ now, the bouldering gym where I live now charges 23$ for a day pass for just bouldering without all the extras you get at GVC. I fully agree 20$ is hard to swallow for a day of climbing but it is becoming fairly standard from what I am seeing still working in the industry.

Also, I would just like to add that I enjoyed my time working for Dave. There were definitely some problems and complaints I had at times as anyone does working for someone else, but as an employee I found him fair and easy to talk to when there was an issue. For a high turnover job, I also found the pay to be pretty fair. Especially being a college student at the time.

anyways, that's my 2 cents worth. I am sure some will disagree with what I had to say here, but I felt like it was worth adding my point of view to the topic.

Happy Climbing!

I was in Grand Junction during December and January and spent 4-5 days climbing at GVC.  The facility and staff were great.  Route setting seemed quite good to me, although I cannot attest to route turn over in my short time visiting the gym.  
Any way, seemed like a great place to me and I'll go back when I visit GJ.

Chad Miller wrote:

Dude, give it a rest.  This type trolling isn’t helpful. 

You’re right, we should just revive years old threads trashing small businesses. 

Stellar work Chad. 

I know how to solve this. All the whiners get together and buy Dave out and then see just how much fun running a business can be. Then all the new whiners can come and bitch at you.
Also how many times have all you people climbed the same outdoor route and not complained about it not being changed or re-set.
Honestly you folks would bitch if they hung you with a new rope.

Nick Scott wrote:…Setting a good route, especially at a harder grade on the walls at GVC was time-consuming and labor intensive and when I was working there we definitely had a motivation problem among the setters when it came to gearing up for setting on the lead wall. Each route I set in the lead cave would take a minimum of 1.5 hours (sometimes as long as 3 for harder grades) to make sure it was something I thought people would enjoy or want to climb at least once. As a setter, it is impossible to set a route that will make everyone happy …

Yup. I used to set ten years ago at a 50’ tall wall in MN. To strip and set a route typically took around 3-4 hours without using impact drivers and having to tape each hold. 

Kevinmurray wrote: I know how to solve this. All the whiners get together and buy Dave out and then see just how much fun running a business can be. Then all the new whiners can come and bitch at you.
Also how many times have all you people climbed the same outdoor route and not complained about it not being changed or re-set.
Honestly you folks would bitch if they hung you with a new rope.

Please shut up. 

B P wrote:

You’re right, we should just revive years old threads trashing small businesses. 

Stellar work Chad. 

I didn’t revive the thread 

Chad I see by your profile picture you are showing your age or i.q. I'm guessing i.q I have owned my own business for the last 26 years and have heard every kind of whining from employees and customers about being a dick employer and customers charging too much. So when I hear about people complain about something they know nothing about it irritates me. In my world you shouldn't   go bragging about being an architect.

I’m not a GJ local, but I’ve enjoyed every one of of my occasional visits over the years, and recall staff being friendly, welcoming, and eager to offer an enjoyable experience.

Route setting seems like a drastically underappreciated art, in general. Especially balancing the time/quality tradeoff. Especially considering how much work goes in to being able to simply understand climbing movement on a deep level.

Some of my fondest early climbing memories are of witnessing passionate route setting - the setter moving through the route at a glacial pace, fully feeling/exploring the dynamics of the body positions, returning to the route - after having watched it be climbed - to twist a hold by 2.6 degrees to make the movement flow sliiighhhtttly more perfect. That kind of obsessive focus on the experience made these routes borderline artistic masterpieces. 10 years later, I still remember holds and moves from some of these gym routes.​
It’s super gratifying to see how route setting has become a full-fledged industry, and how the efficiency, quality, total volume, etc has evolved and diversified. Mad respect for setters passionate about the craft.

On a tangent - advances in climbing technology seem to always astound me with a “How did we not think of this yet?” dynamic.
It’s fun thinking about how the route setting process and accompanying tech will continue to evolve in pursuit of faster better stronger easier setting. Anyone got any theories? I’ve got vague notions of:
quick snap bolts - reduces screw/unscrew time and time spent evaluating if the hold is where it belongs

algorithmically computer auto-generated routes - i think some climbing tech company may already be doing this? I’ve always wanted to bear witness/contribute to the creation of a climbing robot. Super fun/fascinating thinking about all the analysis and logic that would need to be done to produce either.
database of gym sized routes - throw the geometry/dimensions of your wall at the system, and it filters you to the set of compatible routes. basically a precursor/foundational notion to the above auto-generating tech.
Spray walls - Encourage climbers to get more comfortable developing their own movement objectives. And/or blend kilter/moon board style dynamic visual route indication. Bigger, better, etc. Don’t have to set as often. Opportunity to leverage auto-generating routes, provided all the holds are mapped.
What’s climbing going to be like in another 10 years? 50? 100?
Fun stuff :)

Kevinmurray wrote: Chad I see by your profile picture you are showing your age or i.q. I'm guessing i.q I have owned my own business for the last 26 years and have heard every kind of whining from employees and customers about being a dick employer and customers charging too much. So when I hear about people complain about something they know nothing about it irritates me. In my world you shouldn't   go bragging about being an architect.

I didn’t brag about anything. I stated my profession to give credence to my assessment of the estimated cost of the gym’s shell structure and understanding of its maintenance requirements. 

Your comment, combined with your anonymous profile lead me believe you where nothing more than a troll looking to stir up drama. If you had bothered to state that you are a business owner ( I assume running a climbing gym ) I would have changed my view of you  

For that I apologize. 

Care to give the owner of GVC any advice for handling this situation?